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  1. Newbie
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    #1

    Usage of where

    Hi

    This is my first thread, nice to meet you all~

    I'm wondering if anyone can explain to me how to use where as a relative pronoun correctly.


    Bread Palace has set up more than one hundred outlets in Asia ____ it opened its first bakery in Singapore.

    Is 'where' not acceptable in the blank here?
    I know that because there is a adverbial phrase expressing the place(in Singapore), using where might not be grammatical.

    But I've seen people using it so often that I'm not sure if my understanding above is correct.

    For example, can't we say "This is an ad picture where two people are having a lunch at the restaurant."
    or "My favorite author has published a new book in which he blasts government officials for taking bribes and not receiving a jail time"
    (I assume in which is interchangeable with where, right?)


    So, could you give me a help~?

    Thank you.

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    #2

    Re: Usage of where

    Quote Originally Posted by Kr.Choi View Post
    Hi

    This is my first thread, nice to meet you all~

    I'm wondering if anyone can explain to me how to use where as a relative pronoun correctly.


    Bread Palace has set up more than one hundred outlets in Asia ____ it opened its first bakery in Singapore.

    Is 'where' not acceptable in the blank here?
    I know that because there is a adverbial phrase expressing the place(in Singapore), using where might not be grammatical.

    But I've seen people using it so often that I'm not sure if my understanding above is correct.

    For example, can't we say "This is an ad picture where two people are having a lunch at the restaurant."
    or "My favorite author has published a new book in which he blasts government officials for taking bribes and not receiving a jail time"
    (I assume in which is interchangeable with where, right?)


    So, could you give me a help~?

    Thank you.

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Kr. Choi,


    (1) I believe that you are 100% correct.

    (2) This is how Professors House and Harman explain it in their

    Descriptive English Grammar:

    We may say I remember the house where I was born, and use a

    RELATIVE ADVERB [my emphasis] to join and relate the clauses;



    or we may say I remember the house in which I was born, and use

    a relative pronoun to introduce our adjective clause.

    *****

    Professor John B. Opdycke in his Harper's English Grammar has this

    warning:

    Do not use where loosely for its MORE PRECISE [my emphasis] phrase

    equivalent, as This is a situation where expenditure pays or He read a

    paper where he made the problem clear. In neither of these

    statements is place as represented by where representative of the

    meaning. They should be This is a situation in which expenditure

    pays and He read a paper in which or by which or through which he

    made the problem clear.

    *****

    It is only my opinion that your sentence is fine:

    Bread Palace has set up ... in Asia, where it opened its first bakery

    in Singapore.

    It is only my opinion that Professor Opdycke would be very pleased with

    your use of " ... a new book in which he blasts ...." And I am guessing

    that the professor would also prefer in which in your sentence about the

    advertisement picture.



    P.S. I notice that you call "where" a relative pronoun in this kind of

    adjective/relative clause. I believe that almost all books prefer to call it

    a relative adverb. BUT Professor Paul Roberts in his Understanding

    Grammar agrees with you that "These words [such as where] are like

    relative pronouns in some respects ...."

    *****


    Hopefully, one of the excellent teachers at this website will give you

    and me the correct answers.

  2. Newbie
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    #3

    Re: Usage of where

    Hi~ T.P.
    Thank you so much for the thorough explanation~

    Someone told me that in the original sentence I am asking, the relation of time fits better so the correct answer would be time related words such as after, since, which by the way is actually correct answer of this question.(since)

    I agree with his/her opinion. Certainly the meaning of the sentence would fit well with since than where. But for a dimmed logic, if it is taken only for the grammatical point, I am curious as to why where cannot be placed.

    As far as the below sentence is fine, I don't see a reason why using where is grammatically incorrect here.

    "In Asia, Bread Palace opened its first bakery in Singapore."


    I hope someone will share his/her knowledge here, too.
    Thank you~

    - K.C

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