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    #1

    need to vs should be vs ought to

    1)"You ought to put up with what can't be changed."

    OR

    2)"You should put up with what can't be changed."

    OR

    3)"You need to put up with what can't be changed."

    1) and 2) would be interchangeable, wouldn't they? Would the third sentence convey the same meaning in conversation as the previous two? Would it sound less obligatory? I would assume that the best is to use the third one since it carries a subjective want.
    Last edited by ostap77; 27-Apr-2011 at 21:22.

  1. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: need to vs should be vs ought to

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    1)"You ought to put up with what can't be changed."

    OR

    2)"You should put up with what can't be changed."

    OR

    3)"You need to put up with what can't be changed."

    1) and 2) would be interchangeable, wouldn't they? Would the third sentence convey the same meaning in conversation as the previous two? Would it sound less obligatory? I would assume that the best is to use the third one since it carries a subjective want.
    Where is the "subjective want"?

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    #3

    Re: need to vs should be vs ought to

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    Where is the "subjective want"?
    Would this be a trustworthy statement "Ought" inplies "necessity." "Need" only implies a subjective want."?

  2. 5jj's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: need to vs should be vs ought to

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    Would this be a trustworthy statement "Ought" inplies "necessity." "Need" only implies a subjective want."?
    No

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    #5

    Re: need to vs should be vs ought to

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    No
    Getting back to post #1, what would be your comments?

  3. 5jj's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: need to vs should be vs ought to

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    1)"You ought to put up with what can't be changed."
    2)"You should put up with what can't be changed."

    As you suggest, these can mean virtually the same

    3)"You need to put up with what can't be changed."

    Would the third sentence convey the same meaning in conversation as the previous two? It could.
    Effectively, depending on context and (in speech) intonation, #3 could imply several things, including:

    a. I think it would be a good idea if you put up... (suggestion)
    b. I decree that it is necessary for you to put up... (obligation)
    c,. I see that you require the capacity to put up... (need)

    Note that the paraphrases and bracketed comment are very rough ideas.

    Would it sound less obligatory? There is a less explicit obligation than in #1 and #2.

    I would assume that the best [in what situations?] is to use the third one since it carries a subjective want.I don't really understand 'subjective want'.
    It is impossible to say which is 'best'. Only the speaker in any situation knows what is going on in her/his mind, and what message s/he wishes to convey.

    My suggestion/obligation/need examples with your 'put up with' are not really very good. Perhaps these are better:

    a. Peter: My wife has been a little depressed since our cat died.
    George: You need to get her a new one.
    (Suggestion)

    b. Doctor (to nurse): I am worried about this patient. You need to keep a close eye on him. (Obligation)

    c. Manager (to employee): You've worked flat out on this project You look worn out. You need to take some time off. (Need)

    A slight change in intonation could change the interpretation: (c), for example, could easily be taken as a suggestion.

    It is difficult to give clearer answers, because we are not able to read the speaker's mind.

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    #7

    Re: need to vs should be vs ought to

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    It is impossible to say which is 'best'. Only the speaker in any situation knows what is going on in her/his mind, and what message s/he wishes to convey.

    My suggestion/obligation/need examples with your 'put up with' are not really very good. Perhaps these are better:

    a. Peter: My wife has been a little depressed since our cat died.
    George: You need to get her a new one.
    (Suggestion)

    b. Doctor (to nurse): I am worried about this patient. You need to keep a close eye on him. (Obligation)

    c. Manager (to employee): You've worked flat out on this project You look worn out. You need to take some time off. (Need)

    A slight change in intonation could change the interpretation: (c), for example, could easily be taken as a suggestion.

    It is difficult to give clearer answers, because we are not able to read the speaker's mind.
    "You don't need to pay so much money up-front."=It can be interpreted both as suggestion and obligation depending on an intonation?

    "There Needs To Be A Buzz About The Place."
    Would this be close in meaning to "There's got to be a buzz about the place." It's an extract from the article about soccer.
    Last edited by ostap77; 28-Apr-2011 at 13:06.

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    #8

    Re: need to vs should be vs ought to

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    You don't need to pay so much money up-front=It can be interpreted both as suggestion and obligation depending on an intonation?
    I realise understanding things depends largely on the context and the speaker, but I would generally read
    you don't need to pay as "it's not necessary for you to pay,"
    you needn't pay as "I allow you not to pay," and
    you don't have to pay as "you are not obliged to pay".

    Also, I feel the speaker's authority and attitude have much to do with what he chooses to say. If somebody in authority doesn't want to sound too oppressive they might use "need" to express the idea of obligation. If your boss says that you "need to do sth", it usually doesn't leave you much room for debate. ;)

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