uncareful - careless; reasonable - reasonably

[dilodi83]

Strange as it may seem, driving a car can cause many aches and pains. They only occur because drivers are uncareful/careless about certain things and most are avoidable.
Keep your seat in a reasonable/reasonably upright position

Are they both interchangeable? In the exercise I have done, I have selected the first ones of both, but the book suggested the second ones. What's your opinion?

 

[emsr2d2]

"Uncareful" does not exist.

 

[dilodi83]

and what about the other one?

 

[BobK]

:up: And you need an adverb to modify 'upright', so 'reasonable' won't do.

b

 

[birdeen's call]

:up: And you need an adverb to modify 'upright', so 'reasonable' won't do.

b

However,

Keep your seat in a reasonable, upright position.

would be acceptable in my opinion, if someone really wanted to say it. I'm not sure why, but without the comma it seems wrong to me.

 

[5jj]

However,

Keep your seat in a reasonable, upright position.

would be acceptable in my opinion, if someone really wanted to say it. I'm not sure why, but without the comma it seems wrong to me.

Without the comma, it seems as if you have mistakenly used the adjective instead of the adverb. With the comma, there is no problem.

 

[birdeen's call]

Without the comma, it seems as if you have mistakenly used the adjective instead of the adverb. With the comma, there is no problem.

It does seem so, but why? Can't "reasonable" modify "upright position"? When I start thinking of this, the feeling of incorrectness goes away.

 

[SoothingDave]

"Reasonable" can modify "position." With the comma, it's two adjectives, both modifying "position."

 

[BobK]

:up: Also, I have the impression that 'reasonably' means 'more or less' more often than it means 'in a reasonable way'. I don't know how to test this (apart from hacking through all corpus hits for 'reasonably' - which I may do when I have time ;-) - I'm sure some corposes have semantic markers - in this case approximateness vs rationality - but I don't know how to use them).

I also think 'reasonable' means 'thinking rationally' more often than it means 'approximate' - some dictionaries might indicate this by listing a primary and a secondary sense, but most dictionaries I've met don't have derived adverbs as separate headwords.

b

 

[birdeen's call]

"Reasonable" can modify "position." With the comma, it's two adjectives, both modifying "position."

Yes, but it doesn't explain why it's incorrect without the comma. I think it's grammatically correct not to use the comma.

 

[5jj]

Yes, but it doesn't explain why it's incorrect without the comma. I think it's grammatically correct not to use the comma.

We generally use a comma when we have two adjectives not joined by a conjunction:

He's a reasonable, honest man.

 

[emsr2d2]

Yes, but it doesn't explain why it's incorrect without the comma. I think it's grammatically correct not to use the comma.

Keep your seat in a reasonably upright position = Keep your seat in a position which is reasonably upright. (1 adjective: upright + 1 modifier: reasonably)

Keep your seat in a reasonable, upright position = Keep your seat in a position which is both reasonable and upright. (2 adjectives: reasonable and upright)

The basic rule is that if you can replace the comma between two adjectives with the word "and" then you need the comma.

 

[birdeen's call]

We generally use a comma when we have two adjectives not joined by a conjunction:

He's a reasonable, honest man.

It's not always true. It's "Little Red Riding Hood", not "Little, Red(,?) Riding Hood". The general rule seems to be that if X and Y are adjectives, and Z is a noun, then

"X, Y Z" means "Z that is X and Y" (as SD said)

and

"X Y Z" means "Y Z that is X".

(It seems so to me, not necessarily to everybody.)

 

[5jj]

It's not always true.

There appear no be no clear rules. Swann (Practical English Usage, 2005) writes:

Before nouns, we generally use commas between adjectives (especially in longer sequences) which give similar kinds of information, for example in physical descriptions.
a lovely, long, cool, refreshing drink. [...]
But commas can be dropped before short common adjectives,
a tall (,) dark (,) handsomecowboy.

This is not really helpful for is.
I don't think I would speak/ write of a reasonable upright positon but, if I were to, my thought would be:

A reasonable upright position - an upright position that is reasonable.

A reasonable, upright position - a position that is both reasonable and upright.

This seems to be what you suggested in your last post.

If that be the case, then I prefer the version with the comma.

 

[birdeen's call]

There appear no be no clear rules. Swann (Practical English Usage, 2005) writes:

Before nouns, we generally use commas between adjectives (especially in longer sequences) which give similar kinds of information, for example in physical descriptions.
a lovely, long, cool, refreshing drink. [...]
But commas can be dropped before short common adjectives,
a tall (,) dark (,) handsomecowboy.

This is not really helpful for is.
I don't think I would speak/ write of a reasonable upright positon but, if I were to, my thought would be:

A reasonable upright position - an upright position that is reasonable.

A reasonable, upright position - a position that is both reasonable and upright.

This seems to be what you suggested in your last post.

If that be the case, then I prefer the version with the comma.

Yes, this is what I suggested. I also prefer the version with the comma, but I feel it wouldn't be right to call the other version incorrect.

 

[BobK]

As hinted in my earlier post, I have done some trawling through BNC. There are over 3,000 instances of 'reasonably', and I have looked at only the first 25:

1 DCH S_meeting A B C and we've, we've written letters and er they've been released in reasonably short space of time, but then mostly the prisoners which, who haven't
2 F7E S_meeting A B C we we've got I I I think really we we should have possibly a reasonably hefty session one evening next week to say right, how are we going to
3 F7E S_meeting A B C erm there's no reason Mhm. why you know, it shouldn't work reasonably well. Go and get my down and get a bit more room. Right,
4 F7F S_meeting A B C us it is, yes but I think I think it's Oh yeah! reasonably clear for parents actually. I I think one of the other points Makes sense
5 F7V S_meeting A B C over two hundred thousand pounds to the society er so obviously it's a a reasonably substantial commitment from ourselves tying up our own our resources in in Three Hills.
6 F87 S_meeting A B C for walks, not the other way round. And because she happens to live reasonably near a park, she walks Sandy or Sandy walks her in the park,
7 FM2 S_meeting A B C if Simon can bring one home from work. Doug's Doug's machine has reasonably high graphics doesn't it? It's not C G A? Er no
8 FUJ S_meeting A B C Peter to pass on to Chris didn't that sum it up Yes it did. reasonably well? I thought distributed Can we? Can we team brief? team brief
9 FUK S_meeting A B C . I, I mean I, I wanted to raise that. I'm reasonably convinced Mm. well I am convinced by Andrew's explanation erm I would like
10 FUL S_meeting A B C extent. Now if we work as a team and we work very sensibly and reasonably , it may wo may well be that the most sensible way of working is
11 G5G S_meeting A B C produce er a press release of some description, or some information, that is reasonably literate, then, and it's reasonable pertinent to the area that they're
12 H5D S_meeting A B C number of training applications Yeah yeah. erm which I think we can assume is reasonably standard. In Well I mean the arguments I've had is that they're
13 H5E S_meeting A B C feel that, that justice would be that, that our division would come out reasonably well from these discussions Yeah. because I think that when you look at year
14 HM7 S_meeting A B C faced for, for an upturn. But before doing that er, you may reasonably ask what action we've taken er, during this year when it's been
15 HUP S_meeting A B C as and when the er time you were gon na receive the cash became er reasonably clear Thank you. So that the incremental, only the incremental erm in respect of the incremental
16 HUP S_meeting A B C this country and many other places in the world. But erm, we're reasonably optimistic about visitor numbers. The concern in London particularly of course is the incidents of
17 HUT S_meeting A B C day that I suddenly realized that we're all equal and moving around in a reasonably organized manner but still we're rather loose, whereas the traditional view is a
18 HYJ S_meeting A B C right in bringing it along. ask you for it, is as it was reasonably sound, there is no reason why it should just sit and suddenly collapse.
19 HYX S_meeting A B C open wherever possible, the courts will interpret them as the parties intended to act reasonably one to the other, and er, if there were a formal agreement and
20 J3M S_meeting A B C , it you know people are very traditional and if the Garrick has always charged reasonably and suddenly there seems to be rate of inflation and this sort of thing,
21 J3S S_meeting A B C six months in arrears. What we're trying to do is get it, reasonably up to date, and these are of course then, photographs for the album as well. Yes
22 J3T S_meeting A B C this number seven, seven with recommendations. Thank you there We are moving on reasonably well on this issue. Yes, well we've got to Reasonably well,
23 J3T S_meeting A B C moving on reasonably well on this issue. Yes, well we've got to Reasonably well, yes, reasonably well Then I hesitate to say that there's probably
24 J3T S_meeting A B C this issue. Yes, well we've got to Reasonably well, yes, reasonably well Then I hesitate to say that there's probably a more complex issue now
25 J40 S_meeting A B C down and I'll see if it works. It's not that I get reasonably excited it'll be okay. Right, how do we start? If I

More here: British National Corpus (BYU-BNC). As I suspected, far the most common meaning (all but 4) is 'more or less'/'to a certain extent'. Of the other 4, 3 mean 'in a way that shows rational thought' and 1 means 'to an extent that does not seem excessive'.

There are over 6,000 instances of 'reasonable'. I ran out of zeal after 10:

1 D97 S_meeting A B C yes, w I mean we have got various leaflets produce still which is in reasonable condition. I've got Yeah. Yeah we could take that you know membership
2 F7A S_meeting A B C more sophisticated. Which is that we discuss it and see that it would be reasonable to do that. Right. Er but not much more sophisticated than that.
3 F7A S_meeting A B C procedure I put in the words in the second line, after having made every reasonable effort to consult with the chief executive. Really to protect members of the management
4 F7A S_meeting A B C I felt was that I should have the right to be consulted and that every reasonable effort should be made to consult me. Because as indeed er has happened er
5 F7A S_meeting A B C will of course erm take advice as to whether the rent we're now charging them is reasonable . We do have to bear in mind that our rent has increased er our
6 F7A S_meeting A B C with them. Yes. Of course. By er failing even once to meet a reasonable demand for a for something to eat in a short period of time, then
7 F7E S_meeting A B C there weren't enough booklets to go round. Well I mean a all the reasonable kids don't do all No. the numbers one, two, three,
8 F7E S_meeting A B C lot of it? So, we we're looking there at a a a reasonable amount of sort of extra work but I I think we will find a benefit
9 F7F S_meeting A B C Yeah. they get used to the format? Mm. That's sounds very reasonable but I I er I I ha not having been at the level, form
10 F7F S_meeting A B C go on sorry Paul a lot of the the statements these kids make are quite reasonable , well written comments Yes! Mm. so wha what Andy's done,

The weighting's not as strong as it is in the other direction, but there are enough to suggest that 'reasonable' refers to the faculty of reason more often than 'reasonably' does.

b