ass - person

[birdeen's call]

When an American person calls another person an ass, do they think they're calling that person a donkey or a bottom? Of course, what they mean is just to call that person names, but what would be the speaker's intuition regarding the origin of this term?

What about a young British person? I think an older person would say they're using the "donkey" meaning. Am I right?

 

[Barb_D]

Honestly, I picture neither a posterior nor a donkey. It just means "You're being a jerk."

I don't think I"m alone in this. If you say "That's bulls**t!" I don't think of a large male bovine pooping, I think "You don't believe it" or "That's nonsense!"

 

[buggles]

When an American person calls another person an ass, do they think they're calling that person a donkey or a bottom? Of course, what they mean is just to call that person names, but what would be the speaker's intuition regarding the origin of this term?

What about a young British person? I think an older person would say they're using the "donkey" meaning. Am I right?

Very few people of any age use the word "ass" in BrE nowadays.

It's very old-fashioned and, even when in fashion, tended to be used only by the upper/middle classes. It's used a lot by characters in books by P.G. Wodehouse and most assuredly it's connotations would have been only with a donkey.

 

[riquecohen]

Honestly, I picture neither a posterior nor a donkey. It just means "You're being a jerk."

I don't think I"m alone in this. If you say "That's bulls**t!" I don't think of a large male bovine pooping, I think "You don't believe it" or "That's nonsense!"

My reaction as well.

 

[~Mav~]

*** NOT A TEACHER ***

@birdeen's call

Thank you for your question. I have wondered about this many times.

As for BrE usage, I remember fivejedjon telling me that he prefers the term "smart-arse" to (the AmE) "smart ass", and from this I infer (maybe falsely :-? ) that "you're such an arse" is the phrase that I would expect from a BrE speaker. (Not that I actually expect anyone telling me such a thing, though I have already been called meaner names than that, L:lol:L.)

Honestly, I picture neither a posterior nor a donkey. It just means "You're being a jerk."

But substituting "ass" for "asshole" makes it clear what the person is referring to, doesn't it?

Without wishing to hijack the thread, I would just like to ask whether "bum" (E.g., "He's such a bum.") means a lazy person (in this context), or the body part we sit on? And if we add the adjective, "lazy" to the previous exclamation ("He's such a lazy bum!"), does it mean that he's a lazy ass/butt/buttock, or is it still just a phrase meaning that the person in question is (annoyingly) lazy?

 

[birdeen's call]

*** NOT A TEACHER ***

@birdeen's call

Thank you for your question. I have wondered about this many times.

As for BrE usage, I remember fivejedjon telling me that he prefers the term "smart-arse" to (the AmE) "smart ass", and from this I infer (maybe falsely :-? ) that "you're such an arse" is the phrase that I would expect from a BrE speaker. (Not that I actually expect anyone telling me such a thing, though I have already been called meaner names than that, L:lol:L.)

I don't remember seeing or hearing "arse" used as a derogatory term for a person as in

You're such an arse.

But the AHD has "3. a stupid person; fool". Hopefully, our British friends will explain.

Without wishing to hijack the thread, I would just like to ask whether "bum" (E.g., "He's such a bum.") means a lazy person (in this context), or the body part we sit on? And if we add the adjective, "lazy" to the previous exclamation ("He's such a lazy bum!"), does it mean that he's a lazy ass/butt/buttock, or is it still just a phrase meaning that the person in question is (annoyingly) lazy?

These meanings are not related etymologically according to the AHD.

PS: I misunderstood what you'd written, which is why my answer has nothing to do with the question. Sorry.

 

[Barb_D]

Bum as in "you're a lazy bum" has nothing to do with posteriors.

We might say "You're being a horse's a** about it" -- I really NEVER associate "you're being an ass" with a human posterior.

I'm done with this thread, by the way. Others can take over if there are more questions.

 

[konungursvia]

I would think of the donkey, with the same meaning as a jerk, or stubborn jerk, or impolite jerk.

 

[billmcd]

Honestly, I picture neither a posterior nor a donkey. It just means "You're being a jerk."

I don't think I"m alone in this. If you say "That's bulls**t!" I don't think of a large male bovine pooping, I think "You don't believe it" or "That's nonsense!"

Thank goodness for asterisks, Barb.

 

[Ouisch]

To my mind, when someone uses a** in AmE (excuse my asterisks, but I generally never curse, even in real life. I'm such a prude.... ) they are, no matter how indirectly, still refering to the human posterior. Yes, calling someone an a** means that they're acting stupidly or inappropriately, but it all harks back to the backside. Think about it.....when you tell someone to "kiss my a**" you are literally inviting them to humiliate themselves by smooching your rump. The human butt has become a synonym for the worst of the worst, the lowest of the low, the ultimate insult. If you moon someone, you are showing contempt or disrespect by visually exposing your buttocks. Therefore, whether you call someone an a**hole, a**hat, a**clown, or any number of similar epithets, it is insulting because you are likening them to a human posterior, that area of the body from which we excrete.....well, you know.

 

[~Mav~]

Thank you for your answer, Ouisch. Your replies are always enlightening and instructive. :up:

Bum as in "you're a lazy bum" has nothing to do with posteriors.

I have noticed that you don't wish to answer any more questions regarding this subject, and being thankful for your answers, I respect your decision, but I would like to get to the bottom (Pun intended! :mrgreen: - I hope this works. ) of this "extremely important" question.

With that said, it's still not clear to me what "bum" means if you remove the adjective, "lazy" from my example sentence? (That is, "He's such a bum.") Does that, in itself, also mean that the person in question is a lazy person, a "lazy bum", OR does that mean that he's an ass? :roll:
On a side-note, the phrase "bum-shot" is used for pictures like this one, with the obvious meaning of a posterior. :mrgreen: To me, that indicates that the word, "bum" means what many people apparently consider to be a nasty word. ;-) By the way, does "bum" sound less rude? :roll:

As for the word that also means a donkey, can we say that it is a matter of personal preference whether a native English speaker thinks of
1.) a "hoofed mammals of the genus Equus, resembling and closely related to the horses but having a smaller build and longer ears, and including the domesticated donkey." (From TheFreeDictionary), or
2.) the buttocks, or
3.) without thinking of either of the above, they just simply think of a "vain, self-important, silly, or aggressively stupid person.":?: (That is the question. )


PS: I (and I'm sure I can speak on behalf of birdeen's call as well ) would still like to know what BrE speakers can tell us about the usage of 'arse'. (Like in "smart-arse". When hearing this phrase, do you think of a "smart donkey", or a "smart posterior"? :lol: )

 

[Hedwig]

I don't remember seeing or hearing "arse" used as a derogatory term for a person as in

You're such an arse.

I've heard it. In British films.

 

[emsr2d2]

In BrE, "ass" does not mean your bottom. It is a word for a donkey and would be used as a derogatory word to mean idiot or stupid person but as someone else said, it's very old-fashioned and I wouldn't recommend using it.

In BrE, I have heard people say "Oh, he's such an arse!" However, it is both less common and less rude than "He's such an arsehole!" which I would not recommend anyone uses.

A "bum" in AmE has nothing to do with your bottom. It is only in BrE that the word means your buttocks. In AmE it refers to a lazy person or a homeless person (I think!)

BrE: I fell over and bruised my bum.
AmE: I fell over and bruised my ass.

 

[riquecohen]

A "bum" in AmE has nothing to do with your bottom. It is only in BrE that the word means your buttocks. In AmE it refers to a lazy person or a homeless person (I think!)
You're right.
BrE: I fell over and bruised my bum.
AmE: I fell over and bruised my ass.

Look here. bum - definition of bum by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[~Mav~]

In BrE, "ass" does not mean your bottom. It is a word for a donkey and would be used as a derogatory word to mean idiot or stupid person but as someone else said, it's very old-fashioned and I wouldn't recommend using it.

In BrE, I have heard people say "Oh, he's such an arse!" However, it is both less common and less rude than "He's such an arsehole!" which I would not recommend anyone uses.

A "bum" in AmE has nothing to do with your bottom. It is only in BrE that the word means your buttocks. In AmE it refers to a lazy person or a homeless person (I think!)

BrE: I fell over and bruised my bum.
AmE: I fell over and bruised my ass.

Thank you very much for your answer. :up: So, it is just another BrE vs. AmE [STRIKE]thingy[/STRIKE] difference. :-| I could have known that!

So, if a Brit says something like this, "He was pissed, and he fell on his bum as he was walking in the street.", an American's reaction might be the following: "Wait! He was so annoyed that he fell on his ...what? And why was he walking in the street? He could have been run over or hurt in some way.":-o (I am not entirely sure whether this example of mine actually works, but I hope it does! )

Anyway, thanks for everybody who contributed to this thread. :up: This deeply rooted problem of mine ( :mrgreen: ) seems to have been solved. And again, thanks to birdeen's call for asking this question.

 

[buggles]

In case it's not really been made clear, I'm pretty confident that "bum", when applied to a person, derives from the AmE word for a tramp or hobo.

Hence things like, "being given the bum's rush" which means being thrown out of, say, a nightclub in much the same way that a tramp would be ejected from a posh restaurant.

We speak of "bumming a cigarette" if we cadge one from a stranger, again as a tramp might.

This applies, as far as I know, to both AmE and BrE.

 

[emsr2d2]

BrE : I was so pissed I fell over and bruised my bum = I was so drunk that I tripped and caused a bruise on my posterior.

AmE : I was so pissed I tripped and bruised my bum = I was so angry that I tripped and caused bruising to a homeless person that I own!

As you can see, the sentence only really makes sense in BrE using those particular words.

While we're on the subject of body parts:

AmE : I bruised my fanny = I bruised my bottom/posterior/buttocks.
BrE : I bruised my fanny = I bruised my vagina (note that "fanny" is not a nice word for female genitalia but it is used a lot).