dare vs dared

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Tan Elaine

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1. Peter dared to fight with Paul because the latter was smaller in size.

2. Paul dare/dared not fight with Peter because the latter was much bigger in size.

I believe sentence 1 is correct. For sentence 2 which word in bold should I use?

Thanks.
 
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Hedwig

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1. Peter dared to fight with Paul because the latter was smaller in size.

2. Paul dare/dared not fight with Peter because the latter was much bigger in size.

I believe sentence 1 is correct. For sentence which word in bold should I use?

Thanks.

Dare in sentence 2 does not agree with was, which is in the past tense, so dare not fight is correct.
Notice that dare in this construction is used as a modal verb. If you wrote "Paul did not dare", which is also correct, you'd be using the infinitive form because the past tense is taken care of by the auxiliary did.

I'm not a teacher
 

konungursvia

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Dare in sentence 2 does not agree with was, which is in the past tense, so dare not fight is correct.
Notice that dare in this construction is used as a modal verb. If you wrote "Paul did not dare", which is also correct, you'd be using the infinitive form because the past tense is taken care of by the auxiliary did.

I'm not a teacher

I'm not sure I agree with this. First of all (I hate how that sounds too strong these days) we are dealing with an archaic or older form, which doesn't find itself easily solved by what we hear today.

'He dare not fight' is in the present tense, although it may also be a form of subjunctive in some cases. I wouldn't use it with a past tense complement. To do so, it would be better with a conditional, 'He would not dare/would never dare to fight..."

'He dared not fight' is in the past, so that one agrees with the complement better in my opinion. Much better.
 

5jj

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'Dare', as a modal, is a messy verb. It is best avoided
 

emsr2d2

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I agree that dare/dared needs to agree with the rest of the sentence.

Paul dared not fight John because the latter was much bigger.
Paul dare not fight John because the latter is much bigger.
 

Hedwig

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I'm not sure I agree with this. First of all (I hate how that sounds too strong these days) we are dealing with an archaic or older form, which doesn't find itself easily solved by what we hear today.

'He dare not fight' is in the present tense, although it may also be a form of subjunctive in some cases. I wouldn't use it with a past tense complement. To do so, it would be better with a conditional, 'He would not dare/would never dare to fight..."

'He dared not fight' is in the past, so that one agrees with the complement better in my opinion. Much better.

I read your post three times and couldn't find how we disagreed. Then I noticed my typo. Of course! I'm asking for tense agreement here and then I go and type dare without the final d. :oops:
 

konungursvia

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I read your post three times and couldn't find how we disagreed. Then I noticed my typo. Of course! I'm asking for tense agreement here and then I go and type dare without the final d. :oops:

That's what I thought. Say, if I come to Argentina, can you show me around?
 

Hedwig

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I'd be honoured.
 

Tan Elaine

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Just wondering if it is different if the verb is used in the positive.

Paul dare/dares to fight with John although the latter is much bigger. (I notice that 'in size' is not needed as pointed out by Emsr2d2)

In this case, I guess 'dares' is correct. I hope I am right.

Thanks.
 
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konungursvia

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You can, Elaine, but it is seen as redundant. We usually say:

"Paul fights with John despite the latter's size."
 

Tan Elaine

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Just wondering if it is different if the verb is used in the positive.

Paul dare/dares to fight with John although the latter is much bigger. (I notice that 'in size' is not needed as pointed out by Emsr2d2)

In this case, I guess 'dares' is correct. I hope I am right.

Thanks.
On second thoughts, I think I can use either verb.

Paul dare to fight with John... OR
Paul dares to fight with John...

Am I correct? Thanks.
 
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emsr2d2

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On second thoughts, I think I can use either verb.

Paul dare to fight with John... OR
Paul dares to fight with John...

Am I correct? Thanks.

Paul dares to fight...
Paul does not dare to fight...
Does Paul dare to fight...?
 

philo2009

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1. Peter dared to fight with Paul because the latter was smaller in size.

2. Paul dare/dared not fight with Peter because the latter was much bigger in size.

I believe sentence 1 is correct. For sentence 2 which word in bold should I use?

Thanks.

Your semantically strange/unidiomatic examples obscure the grammatical point concerning the possible forms of the verb 'dare' that you are (presumably) aiming to clarify.

The following examples should be sufficient for you to figure out the combinative possibilities:

POSITIVE-ASSERTIVE:
Peter dares to fight with Paul.
Peter dared to fight with Paul.

NEGATIVE-ASSERTIVE:
Peter doesn't dare to fight with Paul.
Peter dare not fight with Paul.
Peter didn't dare to fight with Paul.
Peter dared not fight with Paul.

POSITIVE-INTERROGATIVE:
Does Peter dare to fight with Paul?
(Dare Peter fight with Paul?)
Did Peter dare to fight with Paul?
(Dared Peter fight with Paul?)

NEGATIVE-INTERROGATIVE:
Doesn't Peter dare to fight with Paul?
Daren't Peter fight with Paul?
Didn't Peter dare to fight with Paul?

Bracketed forms might be considered a little unnatural by some speakers and are therefore probably best avoided.

Note, therefore, that the natural use of 'dare' as a modal verb - i.e. without 'to' - is restricted to (mainly present-tense) negative or interrogative sentences.
 

Tan Elaine

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Many thanks, Philo, for the many examples. It helps a lot.:)
 
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