either man is rich

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Verona_82

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Hello,

I've got a really silly question. My book gives the following examples illustrating the usage of 'both', 'either' and 'neither':

Tom rich. Ben is rich too.
Both men are rich.
Either man is rich.
Neither man is poor.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with "either man is rich', largely because it sounds odd in my own language, I guess. I'm accustomed to this word being used to imply "no matter which one of the two", but here we have "each of the two", which obviously means "both". So the question is: what's the point in saying 'either man is rich" when the message is "both of them are rich"?

P.S. The book wants learners to write/say similar sentences about two of their friends, for example: Ivan and Petr are my friends. Both men are engineers. Either is married :-?
Looking forward to your comments.
Thank you.
 

Rover_KE

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'Either man is rich' is not an idiomatic sentence.

Rover
 

Verona_82

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Would omitting the noun and ending up with "either is rich" make sense?


:-? There's also one more example in the book.
There are two men in the office. They both have the necessary information.
Either man has the necessary information. Either has the necessary information

What do you think about this one?
 

Hedwig

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Hello,

I've got a really silly question.

Dear Verona,
There are no silly questions (only silly answers). :)

I too would have used both in your example. When I typed either in dictionary.com it returned, among other things, the following usage note. It deals with number and is not what you asked, I know, but what caught my attention was that some of these examples remind me of the one you posted:

When the pronoun either is the subject and comes immediately before the verb, the verb is singular: Either is good enough. Either grows well in this soil. When either is followed by a prepositional phrase with a plural object, there is a tendency to use a plural verb, but a singular verb is more common: Either of them is (or are ) good enough. Either of the shrubs grows (or grow ) well in this soil.
 

Verona_82

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Thanks, Hedwig.
Your examples seem fine; I just can't puzzle out why my example seems so strange to me.
 

Tdol

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For me:

Tom rich. Ben is rich too.
Both men are rich. :tick:
Neither man is poor. :tick:

Either man is rich. - This doesn't work for me.
 

Verona_82

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Thank you. I'm struggling to understand why it doesn't work for anybody exept for the author of the book.

For example, we can say "I stayed in a hotel" or "I stayed at a hotel". Either answer is fine. --> both of them are fine.
 

Tdol

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When you say either answer is fine, only one answer would be given/is needed, but in the rich men example you are not talking about one but two- you could say that as they're both rich, either of them could foot the bill.
 

Verona_82

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Thank you. So in the light of what you've written, I guess this example is OK providing there is no further context

There are two men in the office. Either man has the necessary information.

(--> you can address your question to either of them)
 

Tdol

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I'd say that both have the information so either could help you.
 

TheParser

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Hello,

I've got a really silly question. My book gives the following examples illustrating the usage of 'both', 'either' and 'neither':

Tom rich. Ben is rich too.
Both men are rich.
Either man is rich.
Neither man is poor.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with "either man is rich', largely because it sounds odd in my own language, I guess. I'm accustomed to this word being used to imply "no matter which one of the two", but here we have "each of the two", which obviously means "both". So the question is: what's the point in saying 'either man is rich" when the message is "both of them are rich"?

P.S. The book wants learners to write/say similar sentences about two of their friends, for example: Ivan and Petr are my friends. Both men are engineers. Either is married :-?
Looking forward to your comments.
Thank you.


***** NOT A TEACHER *****


(1) It is, indeed, difficult to understand why "Either man is rich" is not

idiomatic. I think that the Editor gave us a good answer in his 3:15 post.

(2) But why is it idiomatic (I think) if you continue the sentence with some

more words? For example:

Two men want to marry my daughter. I really do not care which man marries

her. Either man is rich enough to make my precious little Mona a very

happy woman.
 

Rover_KE

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There are two men in the office. Either man has the necessary information.
That sounds wrong for some reason.

However, it would be fine to say

'There are two men in the office. Either one can give you the necessary information.'

Rover
 

Afit

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Either man is rich.

Either (here) functions as an exclusive disjunction. Let us denote, for the sake of argument, the two men by A and B.

Either man is rich is a binomial operation, "either "being the operator, and A and B the operands.

The statement is true if and only if the truth values of the operands differ.
If A is rich but B is not or if A is not rich and B is. In other words, the sentence means [A and not B] or [B and not A],

which idea is not too practical for everyday use.
 

Afit

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I'd say that both have the information so either could help you.

Again, either is exclusive: [A and not B] or [B and not A]

Peter, and not Paul, could help you or Paul, and not Peter, could help you.
 

Afit

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Again, either is exclusive: [A and not B] or [B and not A]

Peter, and not Paul, could help you or Paul, and not Peter, could help you.

Sorry. no! Either here is inclusive. A or B or both.
 

birdeen's call

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Either (here) functions as an exclusive disjunction. Let us denote, for the sake of argument, the two men by A and B.

Either man is rich is a binomial operation, "either "being the operator, and A and B the operands.

The statement is true if and only if the truth values of the operands differ.
If A is rich but B is not or if A is not rich and B is. In other words, the sentence means [A and not B] or [B and not A],

which idea is not too practical for everyday use.
How can men have truth values?
 

TheParser

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Statements can.

"A is rich" can have truth value and "B is rich" can have truth value.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


(1) Is "Either man is rich" idiomatic?

(2) If it is, would you explain why.

(3) If it is not, would you explain why not.

(4) Would you use simple language that even I could understand?

THANK YOU


There are two men on a bench. Ask them for $100. It does not matter which

one you ask. Either man is rich.
 

birdeen's call

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Statements can.

A is rich or B is rich.
Then you probably meant

"A is rich" and "B is rich" are the operands.

As for your assertions, if I understand them correctly, you were first saying that

Either man is rich.

meant exactly the same as

Exactly one of the two men is rich.

Then you changed your mind and stated that it rather meant exactly the same as

At least one of the two men is rich.

Am I right? If so, what is the reasoning or authority behind your first statement and what is the reason for the change?
 

Afit

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Then you probably meant

"A is rich" and "B is rich" are the operands.

Absolutely! :up: Thanks for the correction.

As for your assertions, if I understand them correctly, you were first saying that

Either man is rich.

meant exactly the same as

Exactly one of the two men is rich.

Yes.
Then you changed your mind and stated that it rather meant exactly the same as

At least one of the two men is rich.

I did not change my mind about this sentence. I changed my mind about the disjunctive meaning of "either" in "Either man can help you out." This "either" performs differently than the "either" in "Either man is rich".

I show you three sentences:

You can take either flight to the US. - exclusive
People were sitting on either side of the table. - combinatory
Either you clean the dishes or you take the dog for a walk. I have to go now. - inclusive

Situation matters.
 
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