was supposed to have done

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ostap77

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"Bewildered,wondering what on Earth he was supposed to have done this time,Harry got up and followed Uncle Vernon out of the kitchen and into the next room."

was supposed to have done=he could have done?
 
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M.Andrew

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what was expected of him
 

ostap77

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what was expected of him

If he was expected to domething, it would have been "what he was supposed to do this time." So he was supposed but didn't do it?
 
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M.Andrew

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what his uncle wanted him to do, what his uncle had been expecting him to do
 

ostap77

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what his uncle wanted him to do, what his uncle had been expecting him to do

I'm not being slow. I just want to get it clerified. Here is what's written in my text-book.

Use of the verb be supposed to (one of which says)

"The penalty was supposed to discourage people from breaking the low.(it didn't)"---things that we expected would happen in the past but didn't happen in the past.

Why is it "what he was to supposed to have done" not "what he was supposed to do"?

"Exercise is supposed to be good for you." (It's beleived that exercise is good for you)---something that is generally beleived to be true. If I backshift it, It becomes "Exercise was supposed to have been good for him."
 
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ostap77

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what his uncle wanted him to do, what his uncle had been expecting him to do

What would be the difference if I uttered the following sentences?

"I woke up bewildered, wondering what on Earth I was supposed to do this time."

OR

"I woke up bewildered, wondering what on Earth I was supposed to have done this time."

How about this?

"They voted in favor of the new draft law. The penalty was supposed to discourage people from breaking the law."

OR

"They voted in favor of the new draft law. The penalty was supposed to have discouraged people from breaking the law."
 
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M.Andrew

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Exercise was (not were!) supposed to have been good for him. = His chance to exercise is over (in the past), maybe he is dead or seriously ill now.

supposed to do = time for action is still open

supposed to have done = time for action is closed (it was expected in the past), doing it now will not be acceptable

hope this helps ostap!
 

ostap77

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Exercise was (not were!) supposed to have been good for him. = His chance to exercise is over (in the past), maybe he is dead or seriously ill now.

supposed to do = time for action is still open

supposed to have done = time for action is closed (it was expected in the past), doing it now will not be acceptable

hope this helps ostap!

Getting back to my post # 6 written at 08:52. Each pair of sentences refers to the past. What would be the difference?

On top of the sentences from post # 6, here comes the next pair.

"I would have liked to come to the party but there were things that needed to be done."

OR

"I would have liked to have come to the party but there were things that needed to be done." Difference? They both refer to an action in the past that could have been done in the past.
 
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Raymott

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"Bewildered,wondering what on Earth he was supposed to have done this time,Harry got up and followed Uncle Vernon out of the kitchen and into the next room."

was supposed to have done=he could have done?
I disagree about the above-given explanation.
To me, "what he was supposed to have done" (in this case) means "that which Uncle Vernon - or someone else - supposes he has done."
This is normally used for something 'bad'.

Here is an easier example:
A: C has been arrested by the police.
B: What was he supposed to have done?
A: They think he stole a car. (The police suppose that he has stolen a car.) (He was supposed - by the police - to have stolen a car.)

It has nothing to do with expectations or obligations.
 

M.Andrew

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quite possible... but maybe we could hear more of the passage to be sure...
 

ostap77

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I disagree about the above-given explanation.
To me, "what he was supposed to have done" (in this case) means "that which Uncle Vernon - or someone else - supposes he has done."
This is normally used for something 'bad'.

Here is an easier example:
A: C has been arrested by the police.
B: What was he supposed to have done?
A: They think he stole a car. (The police suppose that he has stolen a car.) (He was supposed - by the police - to have stolen a car.)

It has nothing to do with expectations or obligations.

That's why I wrote "could have done" something wrong. It's like I'm sleeping. My uncle wakes me up and tells me to follow him into the kitchen .I can't remember doing anything wrong yesterday but there are odds I could have have done something. So I ask myself what am I supposed to have done according to my uncle's opinion? Would I be following your idea of interpretation?
 

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Uncle Vernon laid aside his paper with a deep sniff of disapproval and looked down at his own grapefruit quarter.
“Is this it?” he said grumpily to Aunt Petunia.
Aunt Petunia gave him a severe look, and then nodded pointedly at Dudley, who had already finished his own grapefruit quarter and was eyeing Harry's with a very sour look in his piggy little eyes.
Uncle Vernon gave a great sigh, which ruffled his large, bushy mustache, and picked up his spoon.
The doorbell rang. Uncle Vernon heaved himself out of his chair and set off down the hall. Quick as a flash, while his mother was occupied with the kettle, Dudley stole the rest of Uncle Vernon's grapefruit.
Harry heard talking at the door, and someone laughing, and Uncle Vernon answering curtly. Then the front door closed, and the sound of ripping paper came from the hall.
Aunt Petunia set the teapot down on the table and looked curiously around to see where Uncle Vernon had got to. She didn't have to wait long to find out; after about a minute, he was back. He looked livid.
“You,” he barked at Harry. “In the living room. Now.”
Bewildered, wondering what on earth he was supposed to have done this time, Harry got up and followed Uncle Vernon out of the kitchen and into the next room. Uncle Vernon closed the door sharply behind both of them.
“So,” he said, marching over to the fireplace and turning to face Harry as though he were about to pronounce him under arrest. “So.”
Harry would have dearly loved to have said, “So what?” but he didn't feel that Uncle Vernon's temper should be tested this early in the morning, especially when it was already under severe strain from lack of food. He therefore settled for looking politely puzzled.
“This just arrived,” said Uncle Vernon. He brandished a piece of purple writing paper at Harry. “A letter. About you.”
Harry's confusion increased. Who would be writing to Uncle Vernon about him? Who did he know who sent letters by the postman?
Uncle Vernon glared at Harry, then looked down at the letter and began to read aloud:
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Dursley,
We have never been introduced, but I am sure you have heard a great deal from Harry about my son Ron.
As Harry might have told you, the final of the Quidditch World Cup takes place this Monday night, and my husband, Arthur, has just managed to get prime tickets through his connections at the Department of Magical Games and Sports.
I do hope you will allow us to take Harry to the match, as this really is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity; Britain hasn't hosted the cup for thirty years, and tickets are extremely hard to come by. We would of course be glad to have Harry stay for the remainder of the summer holidays, and to see him safely onto the train back to school.
It would be best for Harry to send us your answer as quickly as possible in the normal way, because the Muggle postman has never delivered to our house, and I am not sure he even knows where it is.
Hoping to see Harry soon,
Yours sincerely,
Molly Weasley
P. S. I do hope we've put enough stamps on.
Uncle Vernon finished reading, put his hand back into his breast pocket, and drew out something else.
“Look at this,” he growled.
He held up the envelope in which Mrs. Weasley's letter had come, and Harry had to fight down a laugh. Every bit of it was covered in stamps except for a square inch on the front, into which Mrs. Weasley had squeezed the Dursleys' address in minute writing.
“She did put enough stamps on, then,” said Harry, trying to sound as though Mrs. Weasley's was a mistake anyone could make. His uncle's eyes flashed.
“The postman noticed,” he said through gritted teeth. “Very interested to know where this letter came from, he was. That's why he rang the doorbell. Seemed to think it was funny.”
Harry didn't say anything. Other people might not understand why Uncle Vernon was making a fuss about too many stamps, but Harry had lived with the Dursleys too long not to know how touchy they were about anything even slightly out of the ordinary. Their worst fear was that someone would find out that they were connected (however distantly) with people like Mrs. Weasley.
Uncle Vernon was still glaring at Harry, who tried to keep his expression neutral. If he didn't do or say anything stupid, he might just be in for the treat of a lifetime. He waited for Uncle Vernon to say something, but he merely continued to glare. Harry decided to break the silence.
“So—can I go then?” he asked.
A slight spasm crossed Uncle Vernon's large purple face. The mustache bristled. Harry thought he knew what was going on behind the mustache: a furious battle as two of Uncle Vernon's most fundamental instincts came into conflict. Allowing Harry to go would make Harry happy, something Uncle Vernon had struggled against for thirteen years. On the other hand, allowing Harry to disappear to the Weasleys' for the rest of the summer would get rid of him two weeks earlier than anyone could have hoped, and Uncle Vernon hated having Harry in the house. To give himself thinking time, it seemed, he looked down at Mrs. Weasley's letter again.
“Who is this woman?” he said, staring at the signature with distaste.
“You've seen her,” said Harry. “She's my friend Ron's mother, she was meeting him off the Hog—off the school train at the end of last term.”
He had almost said “Hogwarts Express,” and that was a sure way to get his uncle's temper up. Nobody ever mentioned the name of Harry's school aloud in the Dursley household.
Uncle Vernon screwed up his enormous face as though trying to remember something very unpleasant.
“Dumpy sort of woman?” he growled finally. “Load of children with red hair?”
Harry frowned. He thought it was a bit rich of Uncle Vernon to call anyone “dumpy,” when his own son, Dudley, had finally achieved what he'd been threatening to do since the age of three, and become wider than he was tall.
Uncle Vernon was perusing the letter again.
“Quidditch,” he muttered under his breath. “Quidditch—what is this rubbish?”
Harry felt a second stab of annoyance.
“It's a sport,” he said shortly. “Played on broom- “
“All right, all right!” said Uncle Vernon loudly. Harry saw, with some satisfaction, that his uncle looked vaguely panicky. Apparently his nerves couldn't stand the sound of the word “broomsticks” in his living room. He took refuge in perusing the letter again. Harry saw his lips form the words “send us your answer ...in the normal way.” He scowled.
“What does she mean, 'the normal way'?” he spat.
“Normal for us,” said Harry, and before his uncle could stop him, he added, “you know, owl post. That's what's normal for wizards.”
Uncle Vernon looked as outraged as if Harry had just uttered a disgusting swearword. Shaking with anger, he shot a nervous look through the window, as though expecting to see some of the neighbors with their ears pressed against the glass.
“How many times do I have to tell you not to mention that unnaturalness under my roof?” he hissed, his face now a rich plum color. “You stand there, in the clothes Petunia and I have put on your ungrateful back—”
 

Raymott

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quite possible... but maybe we could hear more of the passage to be sure...
I'd bet my house on Harry being in trouble for something.
 

ostap77

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quite possible... but maybe we could hear more of the passage to be sure...
I'm guessing if he had been required to do something , he would have said something like this "what on Earth he was supposed to do this time"?
 
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I absolutely agree with Ray. Not obligation but supposition.
 

ostap77

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I absolutely agree with Ray. Not obligation but supposition.

1)Since he had been yelled at by his uncle before he got up and followed him into the kitchen, there would have have been obligation if he had said "Bewildered,wondering what on Earth he was supposed to do this time ". To work a mess, he could have done this time,out??

2) Would it be obligation, if it were "Bewildered,wondering what on Earth he was supposed to get done this time "?
 
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Raymott

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1)Since he had been yelled at by his uncle before he got up and followed him into the kitchen,

there would have have been obligation if he had said "Bewildered,wondering what on Earth he was supposed to do this time ". Yes


To work a mess, he could have done this time,out??
?
Since he'd been yellet by his Uncle, this confirms the "having done something he shouldn't have" reading.

2) Would it be obligation, if it were "Bewildered,wondering what on Earth he was supposed to get done this time "?
Yes, that would be an example of what we have referring to as obligation or expectation. But it doesn't say that.
 

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I’m wandering why there is so much ado about nothing.

In my humble opinion, we are not on the horns of a dilemma, interpreting the expression in question.

Here are two classic patterns:

He is supposed to have stolen $100. = He is said to have stolen $100.

He is supposed to have become embroiled in a feud over the killing of a medicine man, and was thought to have killed a Paiute named Bismarck.


You may use supposed to in a different situation, for instance, to say what is planned or arranged (and that is often different from what really happens)


I'm better hurry. It's nearly 8:00. I'm supposed to be meeting Ann at 8:15.


I arranged to meet Ann at 8:15. = I said I would meet Ann at 8:15


The train was supposed to arrive at 11:30, but it was 40 minutes late.


The rain should have arrived at 11:30, according to the schedule.


You were supposed to clean the windows. Why didn't you do it?


V.
 
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bhaisahab

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I agree with Ray and Barb. I don't see how it could be read any other way.
 

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Agreed. Ray, you get to keep your house!

I was supposed to have understood it a little more clearly, yet my imagination and an open context got the best of me.
 
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