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  1. milan2003_07's Avatar
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    #1

    Small/minor/miniature/diminuitive Dutch masters

    Hello,

    Probably you've heard about a very famous family of Dutch artists who lived in Holland in the medieval times and created SMALL paintings, which were intended for private houses where there wasn't enough room for big works. In the Hermitage museum in my city there are a great many works by these masters and some of them were Rembrandt's contemporaries.

    I'm not sure whether or not there is a specific word in English used to describe these painters. In Russian we have one. In my opinion it would be incorrect to call them "SMALL Dutch masters" because that would mean their height was not big enough. Once one of the tourists (I'm a tour guide) suggested "MINOR Dutch masters", but so far I've heard some other native speakers say that "minor" in this meaning means exactly the same as "small". One more suggestion which I find closest to what I'm looking for is "MINIATURE Dutch masters". It would also be interesting for me to read your opinion about "Diminuitive Dutch masters".

    What would you suggest I choose to convey the meaning of the size of their paintings rather than those artists' height?

    Thanks

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    #2

    Re: Small/minor/miniature/diminuitive Dutch masters

    NOT A TEACHER

    In fact it seems that "small Dutch masters" is the correct English term. This is the term used on the Hermitage Museum's website The State Hermitage Museum: Hermitage News and I have found an example of its use in this newspaper article by a well-known English art critic Rembrandt's pupil lost the plot | Showbiz

  2. milan2003_07's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: Small/minor/miniature/diminuitive Dutch masters

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Jugg View Post
    NOT A TEACHER

    In fact it seems that "small Dutch masters" is the correct English term. This is the term used on the Hermitage Museum's website The State Hermitage Museum: Hermitage News and I have found an example of its use in this newspaper article by a well-known English art critic Rembrandt's pupil lost the plot | Showbiz
    Thanks for your reply. I don't think we should trust the web-site of the Hermitage museum because I doubt that the information there was written by a native and the English there is of dubious quality. I've taken a glance at the link you've posted and I've seen "Small Dutch masters" there. In fact that's a bit strange, though. "Small", as many of my English-speaking tourists said, has to do with people's height. At least when we hear the word "small" we first think about people's physical characteristics rather than their paintings. I'm also inclined to think that "small" is unidiomatic.

    We definitely need more opinions. The opinions of famous people are important, of course, but not crucial because they can also make mistakes even in their native language. I'm interested in your personal opinions and explanations. Thanks

  3. 5jj's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: Small/minor/miniature/diminuitive Dutch masters


  4. milan2003_07's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: Small/minor/miniature/diminuitive Dutch masters

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    I don't think that's what I'm speaking about. The Dutch masters I've described painted different types of work, not only portraits. There were landscape scenes, stilllifes, everyday life scenes, and portraits. Different genres, not necessarily portraits.

    http://www.google.ru/search?q=%D0%BC...2&ved=0CDIQsAQ

  5. Bennevis's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: Small/minor/miniature/diminuitive Dutch masters

    The term you are looking for is "lesser" - the Lesser Dutchmen.

    Rembrandt and Claude proved that rustic life could provide
    material enough for admirable sketches, but the work of the
    lesser Dutchmen showed that average country scenery was by
    itself an inadequate motive for elaborate oil - painting.
    by C.J. Holmes (Full text of "Constable")

    The phrase can be found in a number of sources online, including books.
    Search for "lesser Dutchmen".

  6. Raymott's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: Small/minor/miniature/diminuitive Dutch masters

    Quote Originally Posted by milan2003_07 View Post
    I don't think that's what I'm speaking about. The Dutch masters I've described painted different types of work, not only portraits. There were landscape scenes, stilllifes, everyday life scenes, and portraits. Different genres, not necessarily portraits.

    малые голландцы - Поиск в Google
    "Miniaturist" doesn't specify just portraits. I think this is the best term. None of your other terms work in standard English.
    You could also say "Dutch miniature artists/painters", but not "miniature Dutch artists". You could probably talk about the "Dutch masters of miniature."
    I don't think "Dutch miniature master" sounds good though.

  7. 5jj's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: Small/minor/miniature/diminuitive Dutch masters

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennevis View Post
    The term you are looking for is "lesser" - the Lesser Dutchmen.

    Rembrandt and Claude proved that rustic life could provide
    material enough for admirable sketches, but the work of the
    lesser Dutchmen showed that average country scenery was by
    itself an inadequate motive for elaborate oil - painting.
    by C.J. Holmes (Full text of "Constable")

    The phrase can be found in a number of sources online, including books.
    Search for "lesser Dutchmen".
    Does not 'lesser Dutchmen' here simply mean those not as great as Rembrandt?

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    #9

    Re: Small/minor/miniature/diminuitive Dutch masters

    NOT A TEACHER

    In a way, the term "small Dutch masters" is analogous to the term "small businessman", a term that has been in use since at least 1948, according to the Oxford English Dictionary Online. Here "small" refers to the size of the business, not of the owner.

  8. Raymott's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: Small/minor/miniature/diminuitive Dutch masters

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Jugg View Post
    NOT A TEACHER

    In a way, the term "small Dutch masters" is analogous to the term "small businessman", a term that has been in use since at least 1948, according to the Oxford English Dictionary Online. Here "small" refers to the size of the business, not of the owner.
    No it isn't analogous. A small businessman is a man who has a small business. What's the derivation of "small Dutch master"?

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