dessert, /ə/

[pizza]

My OSX Lion built in OED is telling me: dessert |dəˈzərt|

However, I think the first e in dessert is actually /ɪ/. Am I right/wrong?

I understand /ə/ is the mid central vowel, and the way I remember the sound is with of /əv/.

But just to be sure, can /ə/ be used to represent something else than this sound?, the mid central vowel.

 

[5jj]

In many unstressed syllables there is wide variation between /ɪ/, /i/ and /ə/ . CPD gives both versions for dessert, LPD gives /i/ and /ə/.

/i/ is the final vowel in happy.

 

[pizza]

I am not sure I understand your reply and I think I am missing something crucial here.

I know that /ɪ/ like in it, /i/ like in these and /ə/ are different phonemes, right?

My current understanding is that all unstressed syllables are sounded like /ə/, the mid central vowel.

 

[5jj]

I know that /ɪ/ like in 'it',:tick: /i/ like in 'these' X That one is /i:/ and /ə/ as in 'the'.are different phonemes, right? Yes

My current understanding is that all unstressed syllables are sounded like /ə/, the mid central vowel.

As you noted yourself, they are not, Vowels in syllables that bear neither primary nor secondary stress are commonly uttered as /ə/ but there are other 'weak vowels. The initial vowel of dessert, like the initial and final vowels of deserted may be pronounced as /ɪ/, /i/ (the happy vowel) and /ə/. To take another example: the vowel in the unstressed syllable I have underlined in the sentence below is often /u/ (not the stressed /u:/).

I am going to Africa tomorrow.

 

[pizza]

Forgive my lack of accuracy, I omitted the long vowels because the short counterpart seems to be less common in AmE, my OED dictionary ignores it anyway. Thanks for the fixes.

Back to my question / statement: "My current understanding is that all unstressed syllables are sounded like /ə/, the mid central vowel." Clearly the answer is: No, given your example in which /u/ is the unstressed form of /u:/.

Now, just to be sure beyond doubt, /ə/ is a distinct phoneme as described here and sounded like in the provided example, correct?

 

[raindoctor]

Both /d/ and /s/ are alveolars. Therefore, your hearing /ɪ/, instead of a schwa, is reasonable. What is heard is not /ɪ/, but a high central vowel, which is between /i/ and /u/.

Close central unrounded vowel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[pizza]

How do I know to stress or 'unstress' a vowel?

 

[5jj]

Both /d/ and /s/ are alveolars.

That makes no difference. The same vowel is heard in, for example, before. For some speakers, that vowel is indeed /ɪ/.

 

[pizza]

It is for Dictionary.com but I still prefer OED, that's why I asked here.

 

[5jj]

Some dictionaries make finer distinctions than others. Of course, some dictionaries use different symbols, or use some symbols in different ways, so you always need to check their pronunciation key.

When I comment on the pronunciation of a word in this forum, I always check my answer in both the LPD and CPD. These are very sound guides to the pronunciation of words in BrE and AmE, covering all commonly heard variations.

Roach, Peter; Hartman, James and Setter, Jane (2003): Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary,(17th edn), Cambridge: CUP
J C Wells (2008) Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (3rd edn), Harlow: LongmanPearson

 

[raindoctor]

That makes no difference. The same vowel is heard in, for example, before. For some speakers, that vowel is indeed /ɪ/.

"A --> B" doesn't rule out "C --> B".

 

[raindoctor]

How do I know to stress or 'unstress' a vowel?

Stress dictates the quality of a vowel. Take a nonsense word like catak.

'catak = cat-ak
ca'tak = ca-tak

See the difference in the syllable structure, stress and vowels

 

[5jj]

'catak = cat-ak
ca'tak = ca-tak

See the difference in the syllable structure, stress and vowels

Unfortunately, your post says nothing about how the vowels are pronounced.

@ pizza. Some languages are pretty consistent in that a certain syllable (for example the first, the second, etc) is always stressed. This is not true of English. We have no way of knowing how a new word in the language is stressed until we hear it used. Once a word has been used enough for dictionaries to record it, we can then check there..

 

[5jj]

"A --> B" doesn't rule out "C --> B".

Sorry, but I do not see the relevance of this - indeed, I am not sure that I understand it.

You wrote, "Both /d/ and /s/ are alveolars. Therefore, your hearing /ɪ/, instead of a schwa, is reasonable". The use of 'therefore' suggests that it was the presence of the alveolars that caused /ɪ/ to be heard. I pointed out that this was not so; /ɪ/ can occur between bilabial and labio-dental (and other) consonants.