Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Ukrainian
      • Home Country:
      • Ukraine
      • Current Location:
      • Ukraine

    • Join Date: Sep 2010
    • Posts: 3,469
    #1

    nonperfect forms with since

    Could I use infomally the past simple in both clauses with "since"?

    "I lost ten pounds since I started swimming."

  1. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #2

    Re: nonperfect forms with since

    Of course you could say it, ostap. However, for most speakers of BrE, the word would be 'unnaturally' rather than 'informally'.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Ukrainian
      • Home Country:
      • Ukraine
      • Current Location:
      • Ukraine

    • Join Date: Sep 2010
    • Posts: 3,469
    #3

    Re: nonperfect forms with since

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    Of course you could say it, ostap. However, for most speakers of BrE, the word would be 'unnaturally' rather than 'informally'.
    I've been reading grammar text-books here's what I've come across in "A Student's Grammar of The English Language" Sidney Greenbaum,Randolph Quirk p.296

    "In informal AmE, and increasingly in informal BrE, nonperfect forms commonly used in the matrix clauses; wrote insted of have written....... in(2)"

    2)Since leaving home, Larry has written to his parents just once.
    Last edited by ostap77; 01-Nov-2011 at 22:04.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Laos

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 57,888
    #4

    Re: nonperfect forms with since

    You'll hear it. However, people are more likely to register it as an error with non-native speakers than as spot-on current informal use that is creeping in among younger native speakers. I also think they're overstating it for BrE- it is growing, but I wouldn't call it common yet.

  2. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #5

    Re: nonperfect forms with since

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    "In informal AmE, and increasingly in informal BrE, nonperfect forms commonly used in the matrix clauses; 'wrote' insted of 'have written'....... in(2)"

    2)Since leaving home, Larry has written to his parents just once.
    Fine. As I wrote (emphasis added), " However, for most speakers of BrE, the word would be 'unnaturally' rather than 'informally". That is still my opinion.
    Last edited by 5jj; 01-Nov-2011 at 11:46.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Hungarian
      • Home Country:
      • Europe
      • Current Location:
      • Europe

    • Join Date: Apr 2010
    • Posts: 338
    #6

    Re: nonperfect forms with since

    A slightly different structure, but it sounds absolutely natural to me:

    "Since she's been gone I want no one to talk to me."

    Not only because it was written by George Harrison ( ), but I simply cannot imagine putting it with Present Perfect: Since she's been gone *I have wanted no one to talk to me." Maybe it's correct (Is it? ), but it sounds unnatural. (*I have wanted...) On the other hand, "since she's been gone..." is perfectly correct, IMO. The present perfect emphasizes that she is still gone, and he still wants no one to talk to him, but there is a chance that she'll come back. (Hence the present perfect, "Since she's been gone...) Am I right

    PS: This has not much to do with the original sentence, but I think it also falls into the category of "nonperfect forms with since". I hope ostap doesn't mind this post.

  3. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #7

    Re: nonperfect forms with since

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Mav~ View Post
    A slightly different structure, but it sounds absolutely natural to me:....."Since she's been gone I want no one to talk to me."

    [...] I simply cannot imagine putting it with Present Perfect: Since she's been gone *I have wanted no one to talk to me." Maybe it's correct (Is it? ),
    Yes
    but it sounds unnatural. (*I have wanted...) On the other hand, "since she's been gone..." is perfectly correct, IMO. The present perfect emphasizes that she is still gone, and he still wants no one to talk to him, but there is a chance that she'll come back. (Hence the present perfect, "Since she's been gone...)
    That's an interesting one. I think that the 'since she's been gone' is acceptable (thinking of 'gone' as 'away'), though I don't think I would find 'since she's left' natural. 'I have wanted' sounds - to me - far more natural than 'I want'. Indeed, the present sounds unacceptable.

    I think this is the sort of 'derailed grammar' that we might well hear in conversation as the mind jumps from one thought to another, but I don't feel that it is acceptable in writing. Let's see what others think.

  4. emsr2d2's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2009
    • Posts: 41,843
    #8

    Re: nonperfect forms with since

    I also think it's the kind of "derailed grammar" (nice phrase, 5jj) that we hear all the time in song lyrics!

  5. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #9

    Re: nonperfect forms with since

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    I also think it's the kind of "derailed grammar" (nice phrase, 5jj) that we hear all the time in song lyrics!
    I have liked the idea of grammar being 'derailed' ever since BobK used the verb in this thread: I'm scared he'd deny it

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Ukrainian
      • Home Country:
      • Ukraine
      • Current Location:
      • Ukraine

    • Join Date: Sep 2010
    • Posts: 3,469
    #10

    Re: nonperfect forms with since

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Mav~ View Post
    A slightly different structure, but it sounds absolutely natural to me:

    "Since she's been gone I want no one to talk to me."

    Not only because it was written by George Harrison ( ), but I simply cannot imagine putting it with Present Perfect: Since she's been gone *I have wanted no one to talk to me." Maybe it's correct (Is it? ), but it sounds unnatural. (*I have wanted...) On the other hand, "since she's been gone..." is perfectly correct, IMO. The present perfect emphasizes that she is still gone, and he still wants no one to talk to him, but there is a chance that she'll come back. (Hence the present perfect, "Since she's been gone...) Am I right

    PS: This has not much to do with the original sentence, but I think it also falls into the category of "nonperfect forms with since". I hope ostap doesn't mind this post.
    Here's another one.

    "I('ve) got the same habits since I was twelve."

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [General] forms
    By saadood in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 13-Feb-2011, 14:45
  2. both forms
    By panicmonger in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 31-Dec-2010, 14:33
  3. -ing and -ed forms
    By digicult in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-Oct-2009, 04:34
  4. Word forms.
    By vv0510_vn in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 28-Oct-2008, 19:51
  5. Forms of To Be
    By Unregistered in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 17-Sep-2008, 15:10

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •