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    #1

    reduction -ing form

    How can I know when the reduction of a relative clause doesn't work?For instance, why is it wrong the following sentence:


    e.g.A man reaching his goals will be very happy in life.(my grammar book says that it should be 'A man who reaches his goals will be very happy in life')But I don't see any difference with the reduction form.

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    #2

    Re: reduction -ing form

    I think that I would hope to achieve, rather than reach, my goals. However, leaving that aside, I don't consider the -ing construction to be wrong. What is this grammar book youmention sometimes? It seems to make some rather dubious claims.

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    #3

    Re: reduction -ing form

    Well, it's the same grammar book.So in the end the above sentence is correct with the reduction?

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    #4

    Re: reduction -ing form

    Quote Originally Posted by allthewayanime View Post
    How can I know when the reduction of a relative clause doesn't work?For instance, why is it wrong the following sentence:


    e.g.A man reaching his goals will be very happy in life.(my grammar book says that it should be 'A man who reaches his goals will be very happy in life')But I don't see any difference with the reduction form.
    I don't much like either sentence. I wonder what they mean?
    1. "A man who has reached his goals is (or should be) happy."
    2. "A man who is in the process of reaching his goals will be happy once he has reached them." The problem with this interpretation is that not every man who is reaching his goals - in this sense - will reach them. Will he happy in the future merely because he is in the process of reaching his goals now, with no guarantee of actually achieving them?
    3. "A man who habitually reaches his goals will be happy." (When though? - There is this problem of using "will be" to mean "is" or "should be" or "generally is").
    4. "Men who reach all of their goals are generally happy."
    5. "Men who generally reach their goals will eventually be happy."
    6. "Happiness is the natural state of a man who has reached his goals. Therefore, if a man is in the process of reaching them, and if there is no reason to believe that he will not succeed, it is reasonable to assume that he will be happy upon the eventual completion of the goals."
    ...

    PS: 5jj is asking what the name of your grammar book is.

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    #5

    Re: reduction -ing form

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post

    PS: 5jj is asking what the name of your grammar book is.
    New Inside grammar by Michael Vince,Grazia Cerulli, Giorgia Pigato ,Jane Bowie.

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    #6

    Re: reduction -ing form

    Quote Originally Posted by allthewayanime View Post
    New Inside grammar by Michael Vince,Grazia Cerulli, Giorgia Pigato ,Jane Bowie.
    I don't know that, and all the information i can find on it is in Italian.

    It may be OK, but (assuming that you have quoted correctly and completely from it) it has some weak areas, and it gives some rather unnatural utterances as examples

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    #7

    Re: reduction -ing form

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    I don't much like either sentence. I wonder what they mean?
    1. "A man who has reached his goals is (or should be) happy."
    2. "A man who is in the process of reaching his goals will be happy once he has reached them." The problem with this interpretation is that not every man who is reaching his goals - in this sense - will reach them. Will he happy in the future merely because he is in the process of reaching his goals now, with no guarantee of actually achieving them?
    3. "A man who habitually reaches his goals will be happy." (When though? - There is this problem of using "will be" to mean "is" or "should be" or "generally is").
    4. "Men who reach all of their goals are generally happy."
    5. "Men who generally reach their goals will eventually be happy."
    6. "Happiness is the natural state of a man who has reached his goals. Therefore, if a man is in the process of reaching them, and if there is no reason to believe that he will not succeed, it is reasonable to assume that he will be happy upon the eventual completion of the goals."
    ...

    PS: 5jj is asking what the name of your grammar book is.
    Very illustrative points, but the sentence can also be interpreted:
    7. A man who is currently striving to attain his goals will be very happy in life (as a general principle.)

    One doesn't necessarily have to attain them to be happy. After all, many find the chase to be more fulfilling, so to speak.

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    #8

    Re: reduction -ing form

    Quote Originally Posted by jahildebrandt View Post
    ... the sentence can also be interpreted:
    7. A man who is currently striving to attain his goals will be very happy in life (as a general principle.)

    One doesn't necessarily have to attain them to be happy. After all, many find the chase to be more fulfilling, so to speak.
    I think that the sense of 'reaching' is rather closer to the idea of 'attaining' than it is to that of 'striving to attain'.

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    #9

    Re: reduction -ing form

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    I think that the sense of 'reaching' is rather closer to the idea of 'attaining' than it is to that of 'striving to attain'.
    I agree in this particular sentence, but it is still possible to interpret it the other way. That's why I included it.

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    #10

    Re: reduction -ing form

    Thank you for your answers.


    P.S. About the grammar book ,yes ,is written by Italian grammarians.

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