Results 1 to 10 of 10
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Armenian
      • Home Country:
      • Azerbaijan
      • Current Location:
      • Turkey

    • Join Date: Sep 2011
    • Posts: 40
    #1

    comparative

    Hello,

    .Have you ever been hit on by people much more older than you?

    I couldn't understand that why 'more' is used at this sentence.

  1. Barb_D's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Mar 2007
    • Posts: 19,221
    #2

    Re: comparative

    It should not be there.
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2011
    • Posts: 59
    #3

    Re: comparative

    Quote Originally Posted by aliii View Post
    Hello,

    .Have you ever been hit on by people much more older than you?

    I couldn't understand that why 'more' is used at this sentence.
    Actually the same topic as this thread:
    https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/a...ative-adj.html

    I'll copy my response:

    This is true, however, when English is used colloquially, you'll often find examples like this. Consider it to be a dual modal, used to convey stronger meaning. On a scale it would look like this:

    Much more older> much older > older

    A prescriptivist would say that something can't be "more older" and that much older conveys the same meaning as the original. That's why it would be marked wrong.
    "Much more older" is saying exceptionally older rather than much older or older.

  2. Raymott's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 24,109
    #4

    Re: comparative

    Quote Originally Posted by jahildebrandt View Post
    "Much more older" is saying exceptionally older rather than much older or older.
    Surely not. Are you endorsing this usage for that meaning? Wouldn't the traditional phrasing of "very much older" be a much more gooder way of putting it?


    PS: I can think of one possible usage. If a 40 year old man hits on a 20 year woman (to use the example given) he is older than her. A 50 year old man would be more older than her (than the 40 year old man) and a 70 year old would be much more older than her than either the 40 year old or the 50 year old. The comparison here not with the woman's age, but with the other men's ages.
    Last edited by Raymott; 09-Nov-2011 at 21:46.

  3. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #5

    Re: comparative

    aliii, please don't post the same question twice. It can lead to confusing responses. My response to jahildebrandt in the other thread was:

    j: A prescriptivist would say that something can't be "more better" and that much better conveys the same meaning as the original. That's why it would be marked wrong.
    5jj.No. It would be marked wrong because it is simply not accepted by most speakers as standard usage in the main varieties of English. I would strongly recommend that learners do not use this form.

  4. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #6

    Re: comparative

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    : I can think of one possible usage. If a 40 year old man hits on a 20 year woman (to use the example given) he is older than her. A 50 year old man would be more older than her (than the 40 year old man) and a 70 year old would be much more older than her than either the 40 year old or the 50 year old. The comparison here not with the woman's age, but with the other men's ages.
    I don't agree, even in theory. In practice I am sure we would express this differently - for example:

    There is a greater age difference between A and C than between B and C.

  5. Raymott's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 24,109
    #7

    Re: comparative

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    I don't agree, even in theory. In practice I am sure we would express this differently - for example:

    There is a greater age difference between A and C than between B and C.
    That's right. B is older than C, but A is more older than C than B is.
    Both A and B are older than C, but A is more older than B.

    I'm not suggesting that anyone use this construction. I'm sure we would express it differently. But I can't see the objection "in theory" to it. The fact that most people would become confused with this is a practical objection. Can you point out the theoretical objection?

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2011
    • Posts: 59
    #8

    Re: comparative

    I'm not advocating the construction of such a sentence. I'm merely pointing out the semantic differences that come up in colloquial, informal speech since not all English is formal.

  6. Raymott's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 24,109
    #9

    Re: comparative

    Quote Originally Posted by jahildebrandt View Post
    I'm not advocating the construction of such a sentence. I'm merely pointing out the semantic differences that come up in colloquial, informal speech since not all English is formal.
    Yes, quite so.
    Here, given that there are an a large number of ESL students, if a teacher or academic says "X is one way of saying Y", without qualification, it is too often taken to be an endorsement of its use. And while most of us try not to be too prescriptivist, that is part of giving advice to learners.

  7. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #10

    Re: comparative

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    That's right. B is older than C, but A is more older than C than B is.
    Both A and B are older than C, but A is more older than B.

    I'm not suggesting that anyone use this construction. I'm sure we would express it differently. But I can't see the objection "in theory" to it. The fact that most people would become confused with this is a practical objection. Can you point out the theoretical objection?
    I suppose that, if really pressed, I can't come up with a ttheoretical objection. It is just so unlikely, and so confusing, that I don't think any native speaker would say it. I'll stick with what you said in your last post: "... given that there are a large number of ESL students, if a teacher or academic says "X is one way of saying Y", without qualification, it is too often taken to be an endorsement of its use."

Similar Threads

  1. comparative
    By lindadanca in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 23-Aug-2011, 08:11
  2. [Grammar] Comparative
    By wotcha in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 26-Aug-2010, 17:10
  3. Comparative.
    By wotcha in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 25-Aug-2010, 21:24
  4. little - comparative
    By Lenka in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 22-Oct-2006, 00:52
  5. comparative
    By manky in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-Dec-2005, 14:37

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •