[Grammar] Use of present perfect with a set time and unfinished action?

[nick32]

Hello, I have been thinking for a couple of days of a simple but tricky sentence containing the present perfect of the verb to go, and I can't sort out whether its form is correct or not. Can I say "my friend has gone to London yesterday"?I know that with a set and finished time reference (as yesterday, last year and so on) you must use the past simple rather than the present perfect. But in this case I intend to indicate that my friend left for going to london yesterday and he is still there at the moment of speaking...so the action of "going", in a way, is still in progress and this would lead me to use the present perfect....am I wrong??A bit confusing to me!!!Thanks in advance for any help

 

[Tdol]

I would not use the present perfect there.

 

[White Hat]

My friend has been gone to London since yesterday.

 

[nick32]

Thank you Bennevis, I agree that the use of "since" makes the sentence definitely correct. But your suggestion makes a new doubt arise in my mind: what tense is "has been gone"?or is it just used as adjective in that case?Could I also say "my friend has gone to London since yesterday"?

 

[bhaisahab]

My friend has been gone to London since yesterday.

That's not a natural sentence, Bennevis.

 

[emsr2d2]

My friend has been gone to London since yesterday.

That sentence is incorrect.

My friend went to London yesterday.
My friend has been in London since yesterday.

 

[nick32]

I can understand the two last sentences posted by emsr2d2 are probably the right to use. But is the first sentence I posted "My friend has gone to London yesterday" definitely incorrect?Thank you

 

[emsr2d2]

I can understand the two last sentences posted by emsr2d2 are probably the right to use. But is the first sentence I posted "My friend has gone to London yesterday" definitely incorrect?Thank you

It's not natural, no.

My friend has gone to London.
When did he go?
He went yesterday.

 

[5jj]

'''' But is the first sentence I posted "My friend has gone to London yesterday" definitely incorrect?

Very little is 'definitely incorrect' in English when we are talking about tense usage.. Given enough time, we can usually come up with some sort of context for the strangest of sentences. It also sometimes happens in conversation that we run together two ideas into a sentence that we would not write - (My friend has gone to London + He went to London yesterday - My friend has gone to London yesterday).

However, as three (four, now) native speakers have told you, your sentence is not natural English. As the present perfect normally relates a situation begun in the past to present time, it is safest to say that you cannot use a present perfect form with a past-time word.

 

[nick32]

Thank you all guys. Now it's clear to me. The problem for us (non native speakers) is that sometimes we stick to the bad habit of translating from our native language to english, which often leads to a wring structure or an "unnatural" use of the language. I strongly suspected that the sentence was incorrect, but it was the closest to the Italian correspondent translation.

 

[White Hat]

Well, guys, I have lived in the US. I'm sure I have heard some native speakers put it that way. And now I'm a bit at a loss as to whether I should use a structure like that in life.
Here are some examples from the Internet:

1) My big girl has been gone to Gran Camp since Wednesday. (Jonathan, Ashley, Mary Anneliese, and Patterson from the US)

2) TJ has been gone to Atlanta since 5:30 this morning. (USA)

3) Our eldest son, Clifford the third, or as we call him, "Chip" has been gone to Iraq since December of last year. (Rev. Lois (Pascoe) Morgan, USA)

Here is the whole list.

For some reason, it just sounds right to my americanized ears.

 

[bhaisahab]

I am ready to be corrected by an American member, but I seriously doubt that that is a correct construction in AmE. (whatever google may say)

 

[5jj]

COCA has only one example of 'has/have been gone to'.

 

[White Hat]

The thing is I feel that usage comes from to be gone. So, basically, we are telling the reader/listener that it has been a certain amount of time since someone went somewhere. Does this ring the bell at all?

 

[5jj]

No

 

[White Hat]

I wonder what TheParser would say on this.

 

[Raymott]

The thing is I feel that usage comes from to be gone. So, basically, we are telling the reader/listener that it has been a certain amount of time since someone went somewhere. Does this ring the bell at all?

These sound like constructions from African American English. This isn’t standard English, even if a significant minority of US citizens speak that way. The disadvantages of presenting ”Ebonics” as standard for ESL purposes is not often dicussed here. Perhaps Americans feel that it’s racist ( I can't remember any American member here identifying a non-standard sentence as being a correct Black English sentence), and non-Americans don’t know enough about it to comment confidently. It’s a dialect that sustains itself partly on the basis that it is not standard English.

 

[White Hat]

Still no Americans... :?:

 

[emsr2d2]

Heather and the kids have been gone to Utah since Friday and aren't returning until this upcoming Sunday night.

I imagine we can all find examples of poorly constructed English written/spoken by native speakers all over the world. Just because someone says it, doesn't make it right.

Please note that it's entirely possible that some people might be offended by your question above. Even if they're not, please note that you should never capitalise the word "black" if you choose to describe someone's colour. This harks back to a very different time when the population of certain countries was divided into Whites and Blacks, as if all black people were just one big race.

Anyway, back on topic, I for one am going to stick to my guns and say that no matter how many examples you find of "have been gone ... since" I can assure you that it does not sound natural or correct to this speaker of BrE, and several other native speakers have already said the same thing on this thread.

 

[Raymott]

Heather and the kids have been gone to Utah since Friday and aren't returning until this upcoming Sunday night.

Do these people look Black to you?

No they don't. Did they say that sentence? Is the old guy's name Heather?
Sorry, but I don't follow your point. If you present your argument in a more traditional way, I might be able to respond sensibly to it.