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  1. wotcha's Avatar
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    #1

    Relative Adverb

    This is the place where I was born.
    I don't know the time when I was born.
    I know the reason why she is angry.
    I know know how he seduce her.


    Can the above sentences changed into the below?

    This is the place that I was born.
    I don't know the time that I was born.
    I know the reason that she is angry.
    I know the way that he seduced her.

    or... do I have to add prepositions at the end of each sentences? like...

    This is the place that I was born in.
    I don't know the time that I was born in.
    I know the reason that she is angry for.
    I know the way that he seduced her in.



    None of my grammar books give me clear answers. Pleas help. ㅠㅠ

    Thx.

  2. Barb_D's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: Relative Adverb

    Quote Originally Posted by wotcha View Post
    This is the place where I was born.
    I don't know the time when I was born.
    I know the reason why she is angry. The "reason why" is redundant to start with.
    I know know how he seduced her.


    Can the above sentences changed into the below?

    This is the place that I was born. Fine
    I don't know the time that I was born. Acceptable, but "I don't know what time I was born" is better than this or your original.
    I know the reason that she is angry. Better than the original. I'd omit "that" entirely.
    I know the way that he seduced her. An odd sentence. The original is better.

    or... do I have to add prepositions at the end of each sentences? like...

    This is the place that I was born in. Awkward and ugly.
    I don't know the time that I was born in. Unless you mean somethine like "The Middle Ages" (in the Middle Ages, in the Stone Age, etc.), you use "at" for a time, but do not use it here.
    I know the reason that she is angry for. Wrong
    I know the way that he seduced her in. I suppose you could say "I know the way in which he seduced her" but sticking a preposition at the end is wrong.



    None of my grammar books give me clear answers. Pleas help. ㅠㅠ

    Thx.
    None of these sentences are improved with the preposition and most of them become wrong with it.
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

  3. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: Relative Adverb

    Quote Originally Posted by wotcha View Post
    This is the place where I was born.
    I don't know the time when I was born.
    I know the reason why she is angry.
    I know know how he seduced her.


    Can the above sentences changed into the below?

    This is the place that I was born.
    I don't know the time that I was born.
    I know the reason that she is angry.
    I know the way that he seduced her. These are all fine.

    or... do I have to add prepositions at the end of each sentences? like...

    This is the place that I was born in.
    I don't know the time that I was born in.
    I know the reason that she is angry for.
    I know the way that he seduced her in. No, the prepositions are not necessary. In fact
    some are incorrect.



    None of my grammar books give me clear answers. Please help. ㅠㅠ

    Thanks.
    Bhai.

  4. wotcha's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: Relative Adverb

    Great help!

    Thank you guys!! ^_^

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    #5

    Re: Relative Adverb

    Quote Originally Posted by wotcha View Post
    This is the place where I was born.
    I don't know the time when I was born.
    I know the reason why she is angry.
    I know know how he seduce her.


    Can the above sentences changed into the below?

    This is the place that I was born.
    I don't know the time that I was born.
    I know the reason that she is angry.
    I know the way that he seduced her.

    or... do I have to add prepositions at the end of each sentences? like...

    This is the place that I was born in.
    I don't know the time that I was born in.
    I know the reason that she is angry for.
    I know the way that he seduced her in.



    None of my grammar books give me clear answers. Pleas help. ㅠㅠ

    Thx.
    When you transform

    [1] This is the place where I was born.

    into (structurally dubious)

    [2] ?This is the place that I was born.

    you are substituting one relative adverb (that) for another (where).

    When you then transform [2] into

    [3] This is the place that I was born in.

    (notwithstanding the unnaturalness of [3], as others have pointed out) you are substituting a combination of relative pronoun (that) plus preposition for the relative adverb.

    Although generally speaking, in this kind of expression (i.e. concerning a place in, on or at which something occurs), construction [1] will tend always to be acceptable, there are fairly strict limitations on the usability of [2] and [3].

    While [3] will often, as here, be considered unidiomatic or inelegant, [2] may in many cases be completely unacceptable.

    For instance, although we can say

    This is the school where I went.
    This is the house where I lived.
    This is the school that I went to.
    This is the house that I lived in.

    we cannot say

    *This is the school that I went.

    or

    *This is the house that I lived.

    In view of such complex syntactic and idiomatic restrictions, my advice to the unsure learner would be to avoid the use of relative adverbs altogether and stick to the somewhat formal but relatively "safe" [preposition + whom/which] construction (the house in which I lived, the school to which I went, etc.)

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