She was a bit cool and was a member of....

[kachibi]

Hi everybody. I have two questions regarding the sentence "she was a bit cool and was a member of Jack's camp that I hate."

1) I wonder is it necessary to have 2 "was" here? I always come across this problem, like, "He didn't go to school with John and eat the breakfast.", "I am handsome and a member of the Social Service Club." and "She will join this activity and go to see her mum"... The question I have is: do I need to add back "did", "I am" and "will" to the second actions/ descriptions of the sentences?

2) Is it natural to say "she is a member of someone's gossipy (a right adjective?) camp which I hate." (note: the people of this camp always bad-mouth others). If not, are there any alternatives?

Thanks a lot!

 

[5jj]

None of your sentences is very natural. We do not normally join together with 'and' two clauses that have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Barb_D]

One thing to think about, in addition the statement above (which I agree with): If you join two ideas, and one is an adjective and one is a noun, repeat the verb.

I am smart and am a member of Mensa.
I am a smart person and a member of Mensa.

 

[kachibi]

Ok, then how about if the two actions/ descriptions are related to each other?

1) "I was going to school and (was) listening to music on the bus."
2) "ABC company did not provide transportation services and (did not) inform customers beforehand."
3) "John will repair his car and (will) sell it.
4) "Sally has not drunk coffee and (has not) eaten a cake."

 

[kachibi]

Thanks, BarbD, but I can't get what you meant by: "If you join two ideas, and one is an adjective and one is a noun, repeat the verb." << where is the verb?

 

[emsr2d2]

Ok, then how about if the two actions/ descriptions are related to each other?

1) "I was going to school and (was) listening to music on the bus."
That's fine without the second "was" because both "going" and "listening" are verbs.

2) "ABC company did not provide transportation services and (did not) inform customers beforehand."
I prefer "The company did not provide transportation services, nor did it inform customers [of this] in advance".

3) "John will repair his car and (will) sell it.
As with #1, that's fine without the second "will" because both "repair" and "sell" are verbs.

4) "Sally has not drunk coffee and (has not) eaten a cake."
I would use "Sally has not drunk coffee nor eaten a cake".

See above.

 

[Barb_D]

The verb is "am" or "is."

Ok, then how about if the two actions/ descriptions are related to each other?

1) "I was going to school and (was) listening to music on the bus." Okay to omit
2) "ABC company did not provide transportation services and (did not) inform customers beforehand." You have a negative. That changes things. Not only did ABC not provide..., they didn't inform.... ABC didn't provide tranportation nor did they inform...

3) "John will repair his car and (will) sell it. Better to omit the "will."

4) "Sally has not drunk coffee and (has not) eaten a cake."Also negative. Sally has neither drunk coffee nor eaten cake. (Few people have eaten an entire cake.)

 

[emsr2d2]

Few people have eaten an entire cake.[/QUOTE]

Oh, how I wish that were true! ;-) And it depends on the size of the cake of course. In BrE, one single chocolate cream eclair counts as a cake. So does a Danish Pastry.

 

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


(1) I think (think) that I understand what meaning that you wish to express. So I should recommend something like:

She was a bit cool, and she was a member of Jack's clique, which I hate.

(a) She was a bit cool.
(b) She was a member of Jack's clique, which I hate. =

(i) I hate Jack's clique.
(ii) I hate the FACT of her belonging to Jack's clique.

It could be either (i) or (ii). I am guessing that you mean (i) because you used the word

"that" in your original sentence. But you cannot use "that" for a so-called non-defining

or non-restrictive clause. You can use "that" only in a sentence like:

Tom: I hate the clique.

Mona: What clique?

Tom The clique that she belongs to.

(2) If you write: "She was a bit cool and was a member of Jack's clique, which I hate,"

it could mean:

(i) She was a bit cool.
(ii) She was a member of Jack's clique.
(iii) "Which I hate" could mean:

(a) I hate Jack's clique.
(b) I hate the FACT that she was cool AND a member of Jack's clique.

(3) I guess the most important thing to remember is that you may NOT use the

word "that" as you have done. You need "which" and that little comma!

 

[kachibi]

I have two follow-up questions:

1) If in a sentence there is a verb and an adjective and you need to link them up, is it grammatically required that the "verb" (was) should be kept for the adjective (as what one of you has taught me above)?

e.g. She was smart and was (<-- verb) a member of Jack's clique (Right)
e.g. She was smart and a member of Jack's clique (must be wrong grammtically because there must be a verb in front of "a member".)

2) For sentences with two negative actions: like "do not study hard and do not go to school", is it totally grammatically incorrect if I write "do not study hard and go to school" instead of "do not study hard nor do I go to school" and "Not only do I not study hard, I also do not go to school."

Hope someone can answer my follow up questions one by one

 

[5jj]

2) For sentences with two negative actions: like "I do not study hard and do not go to school", is it totally grammatically incorrect if I write "I do not study hard and go to school" [...]
The meaning of your second sentence is unclear. It could be taken to mean 'I do not study hard and I (do) go to school'. If you use 'or' instead of 'and', it's fine.

Hope someone can answer my follow-up questions one by one
Try posting them one a a time.

5

 

[Barb_D]

I have two follow-up questions:

1) If in a sentence there is a verb I think you mean "noun" here? and an adjective and you need to link them up, is it grammatically required that the "verb" (was) should be kept for the adjective (as what one of you has taught me above)? I would not say it's grammatically required. I'd say it was a better STYLE.

e.g. She was smart and was (<-- verb) a member of Jack's clique (Right) I think that's better.
e.g. She was smart and a member of Jack's clique (must be wrong grammtically because there must be a verb in front of "a member".) Not wrong grammatically. Just (in my opinon) not good style.

Hope someone can answer my follow up questions one by one

That is the reason it's best to ask only one question in a thread.

 

[kachibi]

Thanks for both answers:

Re 5jj: how about "I have not studied hard and gone to school."? << I guess "gone" itself is a clear evidence that it comes with "have not" right?

Re BarbD: in what way is that a better style?

 

[Barb_D]

Parallelism is part of good writing style. That means that what follows a single verb should be of the same structure -- all nouns, all adjective, etc.

I don't know if this will help you, but here's some more reading on parallelism: Purdue OWL: Parallel Structure

 

[BobSmith]

"she was a bit cool and was a member of Jack's camp that I hate."

What do you mean by "camp" here?

 

[emsr2d2]

Thanks for both answers:

Re 5jj: how about "I have not studied hard and gone to school."? << I guess "gone" itself is a clear evidence that it comes with "have not" right?

I read that as "I have not studied and I have not gone to school". I'm not sure if that's what you meant. If you didn't mean that then to avoid ambiguity, use "I went to school but I did not study hard" or something similar.

See above.

 

[kachibi]

No, emsr2d2, indeed we are talking about whether it is grammatically correct to omit the second "be not" in a sentence with two negative verbs. Just like, originally:

"I have not gone to school and have not submitted my homework."

I wonder if we can omit the second "have not""

"I have not gone to school and ("have not" is omitted here) submitted my homework."

I have this question because, as some of you have taught me, we can omit the second "be" in a sentence with two positive verbs. Just like:

"We were listening to music and ("were" is omitted) singing". <<P.S.: I also want somebody to confirm me that omitting the second "were" and keeping it are both grammatically correct. And which one is more common/natural among native speakers?

Thanks.

 

[Barb_D]

You can be grammatically correct but still be semantically ambiguous.

You can omit the second "not" but you run the risk of someone misunderstanding your intended meaning.

Being "correct" is not nearly as important as conveying meaning!

 

[kachibi]

I see your point about "grammatically correct but semantically confusing."

Then how about the following sentences? Are they grammatically correct?:

1) I can do many things but (omit I) have not been praised by my parents.

2) I seldom see Mary but (omit I) always saw her husband.

3) You can select any 2 questions to answer and (omit I) should remember that each question carries different marks.

 

[bhaisahab]

I see your point about "grammatically correct but semantically confusing."

Then how about the following sentences? Are they grammatically correct?:

1) I can do many things but (omit I) have not been praised by my parents. This is fine.

2) I seldom see Mary but (omit I) always see her husband. I find this more natural with the "I".

3) You can select any 2 questions to answer and (omit I) should remember that each question carries different marks. "I" is wrong here, "you" would be natural and better left in.

Bhai.