[Grammar] unless it will be won

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suprunp

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Therefore, the fundamental principle is that no battle, combat, or skirmish is to be fought unless it will be won.
(Guerrilla Warfare; Ernesto "Che" Guevara)

Can the usage of the future tense be justified here?
(Or had I better close this translation?)

Thanks.
 

bhaisahab

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Therefore, the fundamental principle is that no battle, combat, or skirmish is to be fought unless it will be won.
(Guerrilla Warfare; Ernesto "Che" Guevara)

Can the usage of the future tense be justified here?
(Or had I better close this translation?)

Thanks.
Yes, it can be justified, IMO.
 

5jj

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suprunp

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Thank you, bhaisahab and 5jj!

Could you elaborate on this?

Thanks.
 

Barb_D

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I know I lack imagination at times, but what other tense could you use there?
 

suprunp

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I know I lack imagination at times, but what other tense could you use there?

Therefore, the fundamental principle is that no battle, combat, or skirmish is to be fought unless it is won / has been won.
 

5jj

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I know I lack imagination at times, but what other tense could you use there?
suprunp is perhaps thinking of the 'rule' that we cannot use will in conditional clauses. That rule is, of course, misleading, as we not infrequently use will in conditonal clauses.

Compare:

We will all be enslaved unless the battle is won. (But we will not be enslaved if the battle is won. We are talking about future possibilities.)
You are not to fight unless the battle will be won. (You are to fight only if there is a certainty of winning. We are not talking about possibilities)
 

Barb_D

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Therefore, the fundamental principle is that no battle, combat, or skirmish is to be fought unless it is won / has been won.


You won't being to fight unless it has already been won?

That tense sequences ... well, I can't make it make sense.
 

suprunp

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You won't being to fight unless it has already been won?

That tense sequences ... well, I can't make it make sense.

Well, if we assume that we should fight only when we are sure of our victory and we should not fight unless our plan or strategy has been proven theoretically effective then:
"No battle is to be fought unless it has been won (in your mind - according to your plan, strategy, logic)." :)

But otherwise I can see now why it doesn't work.
 

Barb_D

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:roll:

Still not understanding the logic.
 

BobK

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Therefore, the fundamental principle is that no battle, combat, or skirmish is to be fought unless it is won / has been won.
But it hasn't been. If you want to use the present here (as you would in, say, 'Don't come unless you are wearing a red dress') you could say 'no battle, combat, or skirmish is to be fought unless it is one that can be won.' But the two cases are not the same.

b
 

aysaa

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Hello all,

unless - Definition from Longman English Dictionary Online

Could you please check it? I have read that we can't use unless with will together. !! Do not use the future tense after unless
• I won't go unless you go (NOT unless you will go).

I have been confused about it. :/
 

bhaisahab

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5jj

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Do not use the future tense after 'unless'.
There are two things wrong with this. bhaisahahab has pointed out the first - there are exceptions to this 'rule'. The second is that most serious writers on grammar do not consider that will + bare infinitive is a future tense. It is merely one of several ways of expressing the future.
 

aysaa

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Thanks....I got it.

Also, wr can use 'will' after 'if' in certain structures! If we are talking about future results rather than conditions, an if - will clause is used. So here is the first exception to the rule:

If (you think) it will save our marriage, I'll try to give up drinking.

If you will smoke twenty a day, it's not surprising you have a hacking cough.

If your mother will fill in this form, I'll have her luggage taken up to her room

"will" is not a future auxiliary; it means "are willing to" and that therefore it is not an exception to the rule that "if" cannot be used with "will"(future auxiliary).
But:

If it will rains tomorrow, the picnic will be cancelled.

It is wrong... Is that right?
 
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bhaisahab

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Thanks....I got it.

Also, wr can use 'will' after 'if' in certain structures! If we are talking about future results rather than conditions, an if - will clause is used. So here is the first exception to the rule:

If (you think) it will save our marriage, I'll try to give up drinking.

If you will smoke twenty a day, it's not surprising you have a hacking cough.

If your mother will fill in this form, I'll have her luggage taken up to her room

"will" is not a future auxiliary; it means "are willing to" and that therefore it is not an exception to the rule that "if" cannot be used with "will"(future auxiliary).
But:

If it will rains tomorrow, the picnic will be cancelled.

It is wrong... Is that right?
"If it will rains tomorrow, the picnic will be cancelled." This is incorrect.
 

5jj

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Also, where can use 'will' after 'if' in certain structures[STRIKE]![/STRIKE] ? If we are talking about future results rather than conditions, an if - will clause is used. So here is the first exception to the rule:

If (you think) it will save our marriage, I'll try to give up drinking.

If you will smoke twenty a day, it's not surprising you have a hacking cough. This is neither result nor willingness, but insistence/characteristic

If your mother will fill in this form, I'll have her luggage taken up to her room

"will" is not a future auxiliary; it means "are willing to" in the third example, and [STRIKE]that[/STRIKE] therefore it is not an exception to the rule that "if" cannot be used with "will"(future auxiliary). If you have ever seen such a rule, it is not a very helpful one. It is better to say that we do not normally use 'will' to express certainty in a clause in which we are talking about possibility.

But:


If it will rain[STRIKE]s[/STRIKE] tomorrow, the picnic will be cancelled.

It is wrong... Is that right? Yes
5
 
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