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  1. suprunp's Avatar
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    #1

    independence of

    1) The council's relative independence of the government means it can negotiate its own agreements.
    (Oxford Collocations Dictionary)
    2) The independence of the government means its [the government's] decisions won't always conform to those of the president.
    (My own piece of writing)

    Does my sentence 2) sound OK?

    If it does does it mean that
    "The council was accustomed to the independence of the government."
    is quite ambiguous?

    Or would you expect 'to it's independence' if the author meant 'to the council's independence ~ 'the council was accustomed to the fact that it was independent of the government' rather than 'the council was accustomed to the fact that the government was an independent body'?

    My apologies if my post is quite ambiguous itself, I've tried my best.

    Thanks.

  2. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: independence of

    Quote Originally Posted by suprunp View Post
    1) The council's relative independence of the government means it can negotiate its own agreements.
    (Oxford Collocations Dictionary)
    2) The independence of the government means its [the government's] decisions won't always conform to those of the president.
    (My own piece of writing)

    Does my sentence 2) sound OK?

    If it does does it mean that
    "The council was accustomed to the independence of the government."
    is quite ambiguous?

    Or would you expect 'to it's independence' if the author meant 'to the council's independence ~ 'the council was accustomed to the fact that it was independent of the government' rather than 'the council was accustomed to the fact that the government was an independent body'?

    My apologies if my post is quite ambiguous itself, I've tried my best.

    Thanks.
    1) seems wrong to me.

  3. suprunp's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: independence of

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    1) seems wrong to me.
    Do you mean you would say 'independence from the government'?

    Thanks.

  4. 5jj's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: independence of

    Quote Originally Posted by suprunp View Post
    1) The council's relative independence of the government means it can negotiate its own agreements.
    (Oxford Collocations Dictionary)
    2) The independence of the government means its [the government's] decisions won't always conform to those of the president.
    (My own piece of writing)
    Part of the problem here is that the two sentences seem totally unrelated. If #2 is meant to follow #1, it would be clear if you wrote 'this independence' rather than 'The independence of the government'. However, I don't see how this can mean that the government's decisions won't always conform to those of the president. Isn't the president the head of the government?
    5

  5. suprunp's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: independence of

    Yes, 5jj, I made the second sentence totally unrelated to the first one.

    What I've tried to say in 2) is
    "The government is an independent body. The president does not have any influence on it.". I assumed that "the independence of the government means..." could mean "the fact that the government is an independent body means..." (it seems to be close in how this structure works to "the independence of Ukraine means...")

    In my country the president isn't the head of the government, at least de jure, but let us not stray into politics

  6. suprunp's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: independence of

    The purpose of my initial question is to try to understand whether 'the independence of X' can be perceived differently in different contexts.

    "The council was accustomed to the independence of the government." - I thought this sentence could be used as an example, so that if we could read it differently then it would mean that the meaning of 'the independence of X' can't be fixed and context would be a determinative factor in every case.
    Last edited by suprunp; 18-Feb-2012 at 23:02.

  7. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: independence of

    Quote Originally Posted by suprunp View Post
    Do you mean you would say 'independence from the government'?

    Thanks.
    Yes, I would.

  8. Barb_D's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: independence of

    I'd add that telling us that your president is not part of your government is not straying into politics but rather giving essential context. For many reading the sentence, it was confusing because it was illogical for us to think of the president and the government acting independently.
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

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