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    #1

    as is known or as IT is known

    Hello everyone,

    Will you please clarify the difference between the phrases "as is known/as was reported in the press/as was pointed out in the report" and "as IT is known/as IT was reported in the press/ as IT was pointed out in the report"?

    Is there any difference between the two structures? Does the first pattern point to the source of the info, nad the second gives the explanation (with "as" serving as a synonym for "since/for/because"? (see example below)

    As was reported in the press, Z got killed in the car-crash. (I know it from the papers)
    As it was reported in the press, everyone knew about it (Why did everyone know about it? - Because it was reported in the press).

    If I understand it right, only the sentences in item A below are correct?
    a) As is known, the moon is closer to the us than the sun.
    b) As it is known, the moon is closer to the us than the sun.

    a) As it is known to everyone, I thought you knew about it too.
    b) As is known to everyone, I thought you knew about it too.


    I will be most grateful for your help and examples to clear it up.

    Thanks in advance!

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    #2

    Re: as is known or as IT is known

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrp View Post
    Hello everyone,

    Will you please clarify the difference between the phrases "as is known/as was reported in the press/as was pointed out in the report" and "as IT is known/as IT was reported in the press/ as IT was pointed out in the report"?

    Is there any difference between the two structures? Does the first pattern point to the source of the info, nad the second gives the explanation (with "as" serving as a synonym for "since/for/because"? (see example below)

    As was reported in the press, Z got killed in the car-crash. (I know it from the papers)
    As it was reported in the press, everyone knew about it (Why did everyone know about it? - Because it was reported in the press).

    If I understand it right, only the sentences in item A below are correct?
    a) As is known, the moon is closer to the us than the sun.
    b) As it is known, the moon is closer to the us than the sun.

    a) As it is known to everyone, I thought you knew about it too.
    b) As is known to everyone, I thought you knew about it too.


    I will be most grateful for your help and examples to clear it up.

    Thanks in advance!
    There is no difference in meaning.


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    #3

    Re: as is known or as IT is known

    a) As is known, the moon is closer to the us than the sun.
    b) As it is known, the moon is closer to the us than the sun. I don't find this one natural.

    a) As it is known to everyone, I thought you knew about it too.
    b) As is known to everyone, I thought you knew about it too. This is wrong IMO.

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    #4

    Re: as is known or as IT is known

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrp View Post

    If I understand it right, only the sentences in item A below are correct?
    a) As is known, the moon is closer to the us than the sun.
    b) As it is known, the moon is closer to the us than the sun.



    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    You have asked an excellent question.

    (1) Way back in the 1920's, an English gentleman named Henry Fowler wrote A Dictionary of Modern English Usage.

    He reminded us that sometimes "as" = "which fact." [My note: That is, it means "a fact that."]

    (a) Here is my example. It is not very good, but it gives you an idea.

    "Usingenglish.com, as is well-known, is one of the top 3 grammar helplines." / "Usingenglish.com is one of the top 3 grammar helplines, as is well-known." In other words, "Usingenglish.com is one of the top 3 grammar helplines, a fact that is well-known." It would be wrong to put an "it" in that sentence. If you said "As it is well-known," that would mean: a fact that it is well-known."

    (2) You are 100% correct!

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    #5

    Re: as is known or as IT is known

    Dear billmcd, bhaisahab
    and TheParser,

    Thank you very much for your answers and help.

    Dear TheParser, special thanks to you. You're always very helpful. Your example is wonderful, though I can't name the other two top grammar helplines
    Jokes apart, it made the situation much clearer to me. Thanks a million!
    Last edited by tyrp; 11-Mar-2012 at 23:39. Reason: corrected the layout

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    #6

    Re: as is known or as IT is known

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrp View Post
    Hello everyone,

    Will you please clarify the difference between the phrases "as is known/as was reported in the press/as was pointed out in the report" and "as IT is known/as IT was reported in the press/ as IT was pointed out in the report"?

    Is there any difference between the two structures? Does the first pattern point to the source of the info, nad the second gives the explanation (with "as" serving as a synonym for "since/for/because"? (see example below)

    As was reported in the press, Z got killed in the car-crash. (I know it from the papers)
    As it was reported in the press, everyone knew about it (Why did everyone know about it? - Because it was reported in the press).

    If I understand it right, only the sentences in item A below are correct?

    1a) As is widely known, the moon is closer to the us than the sun.
    1b) As it is known, the moon is closer to the us than the sun.

    2a) As it is known to everyone, I thought you knew about it too.
    2b) As is known to everyone, I thought you knew about it too.


    I will be most grateful for your help and examples to clear it up.

    Thanks in advance!
    (N.B. Your examples have been labelled and slightly edited for naturalness.)

    As others have pointed out, of your cited examples only the a-forms are acceptable. The reason lies in a fundamental grammatical difference between two forms of the word 'as', which can function both as a (sentential) relative pronoun (e.g. 1a ) and as a subordinating conjunction (e.g. 2a).

    The former, as a pronoun, serves a nominal role within its clause, standing here as the subject of the verb phrase 'is known'. As the latter, of course, 'as' can have a variety of meanings relating to time, manner and cause but in each case simply links two clauses.

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    #7

    Re: as is known or as IT is known

    Dear philo2009,

    Thank you for such a detailed explanation. Frankly speaking, I've never known 'as' to be a relative pronoun, and this fact clears it all up. Live and learn! And it's great! Thanks a million!

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    #8

    Re: as is known or as IT is known


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    #9

    Re: as is known or as IT is known

    Please explan why 1 is commonly used but not 2b. Is 2b a correct sentence? Thanks.

    1. As shown in the picture, the Earth is bigger than the Moon.
    2a. As is well known in the literature, the Earth is bigger than the Moon.
    2b. As well known in the literature, the Earth is bigger than the Moon.



    Quote Originally Posted by philo2009 View Post
    (N.B. Your examples have been labelled and slightly edited for naturalness.)

    As others have pointed out, of your cited examples only the a-forms are acceptable. The reason lies in a fundamental grammatical difference between two forms of the word 'as', which can function both as a (sentential) relative pronoun (e.g. 1a ) and as a subordinating conjunction (e.g. 2a).

    The former, as a pronoun, serves a nominal role within its clause, standing here as the subject of the verb phrase 'is known'. As the latter, of course, 'as' can have a variety of meanings relating to time, manner and cause but in each case simply links two clauses.

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    #10

    Re: as is known or as IT is known

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger2012 View Post
    Please explan why 1 is commonly used but not 2b. Is 2b a correct sentence? Thanks.

    1. As shown in the picture, the Earth is bigger than the Moon.
    2a. As is well known in the literature, the Earth is bigger than the Moon.
    2b. As well known in the literature, the Earth is bigger than the Moon.
    1 is a commonly allowed ellipsis of 'As IS shown...'. 2b, however, would not be considered acceptable.

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