[General] Hello from a new member!

[SoothingDave]

Here are three scenarios which might show why it's a bad idea to leave your Registration Document in the car.

1) My name is Bob Smith. I am shopping in a large shopping mall and I have left my car in the mall car park, with the Registration Document in the glove compartment. A car thief breaks into the car, looks in the glove compartment and finds the document which contains my full name and my full address. It is the middle of the day and my car is in a shopping mall. There is a good chance that I am shopping in the mall. When I come back to the car park, I won't be able to find my car. I will be confused and I will spend a long time looking for it before deciding it has been stolen. Then I will spend a long time on the phone to the police and to my insurance company. All the time I am doing that, my house is empty and the car thief has my address. He can go and burgle my house!

2) My name is Bob Smith. On 1st April 2011, late at night, a thief steals my car from outside my house. He gets my name and address from the document in the glove compartment. He drives to the nearest motorway and drives at 90mph. The police stop him. They ask for his name and address. He says "My name is Bob Smith and I live at 10 High Street, London". They ask "Is this your car?" He says "Yes". The police run a check and the records come back confirming that Bob Smith, 10 High Street, London owns this car. They ask for his licence. He says "I'm sorry officer. I don't have it with me". They decide to give him a warning about driving too fast and tell him that he must report to a local police station with his licence and insurance documents in the next 7 days. He is happy to agree and he drives away. The police think he was Bob Smith, driving his own car. When I wake up the next morning, I discover my car has been stolen. 9 days later, I get a letter from the local police station saying "You were stopped for speeding at midnight on 1st April 2011 and were instructed to report to this police station with your licence and insurance documents. You failed to do so. You are now liable for arrest". This is the first that I, the real Bob Smith, know about the speeding incident. I will now probably spend a very long time trying to get this sorted out.

3) My name is Bob Smith. In my car is the Registration Document which I have to send to DVLA if I sell my car. On 1st April 2011, late at night, a thief steals my car and, for fun (!), decides to complete the part of the form which says "I have sold this car. Here is the name of the new owner: Mickey Mouse, 11 High Street, London". He signs the bottom of the form with a fake signature pretending to be me, he also signs a false signature which looks a little like M. Mouse" and he posts the form to DVLA. Even though I report the car stolen to the police and to my insurance company the next day, 2nd April 2011, DVLA will have a form dated 1st April 2011 saying I sold it to M Mouse. The insurance company will try to have me arrested for fraud because I appear to have sold the car and then, the next day, claim that it has been stolen.

Interesting.

#1 I can't argue with. Of course, burglars take a much higher risk getting shot in the US.

#2 Yeah, that's a risk. I think it would depend on how charming the thief was. I'm not sure what police do in the US with unlicensed drivers, but a lot probably depends on the circumstances.

#3 If this is possible, then I totally agree with you. In the US there is a separate document, called a vehicle title, that is transferred when a vehicle is sold. You wouldn't carry that in the car. What you carry in the car is a registration (or owner's) card, which says that this car with this license plate belongs to Joe Smith. It's proof of ownership, but not sufficient to transfer ownership.

 

[emsr2d2]

Interesting.

#1 I can't argue with. Of course, burglars take a much higher risk getting shot in the US.
That's very true! You're a lot safer here as a burglar (unless you burgle a farm!)

#2 Yeah, that's a risk. I think it would depend on how charming the thief was. I'm not sure what police do in the US with unlicensed drivers, but a lot probably depends on the circumstances.
When you say "unlicensed", did you mean people who actually don't legally have a licence (haven't passed their test) or people who simply don't carry their licence with them?

#3 If this is possible, then I totally agree with you. In the US there is a separate document, called a vehicle title, that is transferred when a vehicle is sold. You wouldn't carry that in the car. What you carry in the car is a registration (or owner's) card, which says that this car with this license plate belongs to Joe Smith. It's proof of ownership, but not sufficient to transfer ownership.
Ah, we have no such thing. There is just the one document and it should always be safely kept at home.

It's only as I write all this that I realise how many separate documents we have but also how unconnected they are.

Driving Licence: confirms you have passed your test and what type of car you are allowed to drive. Name, date of birth, full address and photo are all shown.
Vehicle Registration Document: shows the name and address of the registered keeper of the car (but no photo of that person so could be anyone) and does not have to be the registered owner.
Tax Disc: has the registration number of the car but no name.
Insurance Document: Shows that Joe Bloggs in insured to drive car with registration number XXX, but not that Joe Bloggs has a licence or owns that vehicle. However, many such questions are asked when you take out the insurance.
MOT: shows that vehicle with registration number XXX has passed the Department of Transport annual test and is fit to drive but not who owns it or drives it.

There is so much bureaucracy involved!

 

[emsr2d2]

How about health insurance? Do you have to carry any cards with you? If you have an accident or if you need to see a doctor, do you need to produce it?

As bhaisahab said, in the UK we are lucky enough to still have a National Health Service which provides free healthcare to all British citizens, all legal residents and various temporary residents. When you register with a GP (General Practitioner), the form you have to complete asks for your NHS number. If you can't provide one, you have to answer various further questions about your entitlement (or otherwise) to free healthcare. I don't think, though, that any evidence is requested so if you chose to write on the form "I have recently been given a permanent resident's permit for the UK but I am still waiting for the paperwork to come through etc", the doctor's surgery would probably still take you on provided you sign the form stating that the information that you have given is correct.

In my previous job, we had a very small team of people who were tasked with trying to match up illegal immigrants (or people who had entered the country and overstayed their welcome!) with the names of people on doctor's lists. They achieved some success.

Anyone who is taken to the Casualty department of a hospital (Accident and Emergency/Emergency Room) with a serious injury or illness will get treatment with no questions asked. They may later be asked to show that they were entitled to free healthcare though I don't know what procedures are followed if it turns out that they weren't entitled to it.

Within the EU we have a European Health Card which we can apply for and carry with us to entitle us to free healthcare in other EU countries while there on holiday (vacation). If you live in another EU country, you are supposed to apply for a different card which entitles you to treatment as a resident, not a citizen.

 

[BobSmith]

Here are three scenarios which might show why it's a bad idea to leave your Registration Document in the car.

1) My name is Bob Smith. I am shopping ...

2) My name is Bob Smith. On 1st April 2011, ...

3) My name is Bob Smith. In my car is the ...

I fear I'm in for a rough ride!

 

[SoothingDave]

I guess I meant either. You are supposed to have your driver's license with you while driving. So I was talking about people who might be stopped by police but not have their license with them. In which case, police may be understanding, especially if you know your number, which I am sure most normal people don't.

On the other hand a thief or a wanted person may not produce a license even if he has one in the event of a police stop.

Police somehow have to sort out the thief or fugitive from the person who simply forgot his wallet.

This MOT, is it something you keep in the glove box? Some states in the US, like mine, require an annual inspection. Proof of this is a sticker placed on the windshield. Lack of a sticker or an expired one can be a reason for a police stop. There is a separate sticker for emissions inspection as well.

 

[BobSmith]

Ah, we have no such thing. There is just the one document and it should always be safely kept at home.

In the US, all large property items are titled, and have associated "title" documents (eg. title deed) - cars, boats, houses, trailers, etc. all have titles. Part of the process of securing a home mortgage includes paying a firm to research the providence of the property's title. More often it's useless busywork (do they even do it?), but it's required.

 

[SoothingDave]

In the US, all large property items are titled, and have associated "title" documents (eg. title deed) - cars, boats, houses, trailers, etc. all have titles. Part of the process of securing a home mortgage includes paying a firm to research the providence of the property's title. More often it's useless busywork (do they even do it?), but it's required.

Not only do you have to pay for a title search, to make sure there are no liens on the property you want to buy, you also have to buy insurance in case they failed to do their job properly!

 

[emsr2d2]

I fear I'm in for a rough ride!

Ha ha! I am SO sorry! I should have just gone with the classic "John Smith" or even "John Doe" for my example!

 

[emsr2d2]

This MOT, is it something you keep in the glove box? Some states in the US, like mine, require an annual inspection. Proof of this is a sticker placed on the windshield. Lack of a sticker or an expired one can be a reason for a police stop. There is a separate sticker for emissions inspection as well.

The MOT certificate can be kept anywhere you like. Most people keep it at home because it's not something anyone will ask to see. You only have to produce it each year when you take it in for its annual inspection because you have to have the new MOT done before the old one expires (or I think you have two weeks' grace).

If you sell your car, you would make it clear that the car has a valid MOT and you would give that MOT certificate to the buyer.

As I said in my first post, the only document which must be kept in the car is the tax disc to show that you have paid the annual road tax to the government. If your car does not have a valid tax disc on display in the windscreen, your car can be clamped and towed away (and crushed!)

 

[meskete]

Oh, and I just asked what this piece of paper is called.:lol:
It's pretty silly to be able to "sell" the car on the registration document. It seems that administration is much simpler in Britain, and police officers are much more lenient…
Here you have to produce your driving licence (with your photo etc.) AND the registration document - this is the car's ID and it says who the owner is (you get a new one each time you buy a car), and actually, you might be in trouble if these two names are not the same. Yes, you shouldn't drive someone else's car because the police might suspect you of theft!
(And we don't keep things in the glove compartment because having your car stolen is a big enough problem but going to all the offices and dealing with all that administration is even worse…)

And don't you have to pay some kind of contribution to the NHS, which is deducted from your salary?

 

[bhaisahab]

Oh, and I just asked what this piece of paper is called.:lol:
It's pretty silly to be able to "sell" the car on the registration document. It seems that administration is much simpler in Britain, and police officers are much more lenient…
Here you have to produce your driving licence (with your photo etc.) AND the registration document - this is the car's ID and it says who the owner is (you get a new one each time you buy a car), and actually, you might be in trouble if these two names are not the same. Yes, you shouldn't drive someone else's car because the police might suspect you of theft!
(And we don't keep things in the glove compartment because having your car stolen is a big enough problem but going to all the offices and dealing with all that administration is even worse…)

And don't you have to pay some kind of contribution to the NHS, which is deducted from your salary?

The NHS is funded from general taxation. We do pay for "National Insurance", but that is in connection with unemployment/disability benefits.

 

[meskete]

I see. "General taxation" sound like a mystery. You never know where it disappears (at least in my country)! :-D

Back to cars: How often do you have to renew your MOT or get the emissions checked?
Do ALL cars need a tax disc? Does that also mean that you don't have to pay extra to drive on a motorway?

 

[bhaisahab]

I see. "General taxation" sound like a mystery. You never know where it disappears (at least in my country)! :-D

Back to cars: How often do you have to renew your MOT or get the emissions checked?
Do ALL cars need a tax disc? Does that also mean that you don't have to pay extra to drive on a motorway?

The MOT is every year. All cars need to display a tax disc, the cost varies according to the C02 emissions. At the moment wet have very few toll roads in the UK, possibly less than 1%.

 

[meskete]

Wow, thank you for all the information!