ə(unstressed) vs ʌ(stressed)

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keannu

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I learned from a pronunciation website that ə and ʌ are like twins - one for unstressed sound, the other for stressed sound. I think I have heard both sounds of a noun like the following, and when you make the stressed sound ʌ , is it because you want to emphsize it or you are kind of emotionally upset or agitated or do you just do it randomly?

ə(unstressed) ʌ(stressed)
one one
but but
young young
love love
hug hug
cut cut
fun fun
Monday Monday
 
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Raymott

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I learned from a pronunciation website that ə and ʌ are like twins - one for unstressed sound, the other for stressed sound. I think I have heard both sounds of a noun like the following, and when you make the stressed sound ʌ , is it because you want to emphsize it or you are kind of emotionally upset or agitated or do you just do it randomly?

ə(unstressed) ʌ(stressed)
one one - Maybe
but but - Yes
young young - No
love love - No
hug hug - No
cut cut - No
fun fun - No
Monday Monday No
That is my experience. The only word here that uses a schwa when the word isn't stressed is 'but', and maybe 'one' in "no one, someone, anyone ..." if spoken quickly. The others don't work as function words; they should be stressed.
Can you post the website URL?
 

keannu

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Pronunciation of English Vowel Sounds 4 - Central Vowels - Part 1 (with captions) - YouTube
If all the words you marked as "No" should be ʌ, I will be a little bit shocked, going back to my past belief. I mean I firmly believed they should be ʌ, but when I asked some Americans(suck(he pronounced as schwa)) and some Canadian(cut(he pronounced as schwa)) to pronounce them, I got confused. I surely rechecked and rechecked their pronunciation, but they were schwa.
I have heard most of ʌ sounds(80-90%) as ʌ so far, but some exceptions or my possible mishearing makes me confused.

In the link, she unifies ʌ and schwa to schwa(meaning ʌ as well), but I'm not sure if she separates the two sounds, or she meant a word can be either of the two depending on situation.
(Please check at the video clip at 04:27 - otherwise, you will wander)
 
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Raymott

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Pronunciation of English Vowel Sounds 4 - Central Vowels - Part 1 (with captions) - YouTube
If all the words you marked as "No" should be ʌ, I will be a little bit shocked, going back to my past belief.
Be shocked then.

I mean I firmly believed they should be ʌ, but when I asked some Americans(suck(he pronounced as schwa)) and some Canadian(cut(he pronounced as schwa)) to pronounce them, I got confused. I surely rechecked and rechecked their pronunciation, but they were schwa.
I have heard most of ʌ sounds(80-90%) as ʌ so far, but some exceptions or my possible mishearing makes me confused.

In the link, she unifies ʌ and schwa to schwa(meaning ʌ as well), but I'm not sure if she separates the two sounds, or she meant a word can be either of the two depending on situation.
(Please check at the video clip at 04:27 - otherwise, you will wander)
I disagree with her. I don't think schwa is an unstressed / ʌ /, at least not in AusE. And it's obviously confusing you to think this way.
In any event, as I said, none of those words that I marked 'No' occur as unstressed words.
If you have a sound file of someone saying those words with a schwa, please post it.
 

keannu

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Maybe she is right, and my interpretation is wrong. I think her view of ʌ as the stressed schwas is correct as the two vowels have exactly the same way of making except for ʌ's exhaling(stressed) and schwa's inhaling(unstressed), and she probably thinks "cup" is pronounced in only one way. But as I seem to have heard both sounds for many words(maybe my misconception), I seem to think in a confusing way.

I still don't get why the American(from Utah) and the Canadian(from Nova Scotia) pronounced suck[sək] and cut[kət] each. Maybe as there's no rule but has exceptions, they are exceptional cases.
 

light87

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Hi it is American English pronunciation course.
Thank you
 

keannu

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Could you take a look at this website? She seems to pronounce ʌ as schwa, a relaxed sound.
The 'uh' as in 'butter' Vowel | Rachel's English
Also, this voice actor for the dictionary seems to pronounce ʌ as schwa for the word "ultra".
http://endic.naver.com/enkrEntry.nhn?entryId=ec16b4beb531486dbe9db150a08aaba1&query=ultra
(click on this symbol
play.gif
)

If I misheard them, I might be wrong, but I really doubt it.
 
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keannu

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What about "under"? Isn't "un"''s "u" schwa? No one seems to pronounce it so strong as it is noted in dictionary as [ʌndər]. I think I gave too much burden for the videos, you don't have to watch them, just tell me if there's any exceptional cases for "ʌ".
 
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For many speakers of American English, /ə/ and /ʌ/ are very, very similar. For some speakers of American English there is a greater variety in the way they pronounce /ə/.

On Pronuncian, I generally will transcribe /ə/ if the vowel sound occurs on an unstressed syllable and /ʌ/ for stressed syllables. Therefore, I show above as /ə ˈbʌv/ since the stressed vowel sound falls on the second syllable. However, I actually pronounce both vowel sounds very similarly in that example.

If I take the word circumstance /ˈsɚ kəm stæns/, however, the /ə/ can vary from the way it is pronounced in the word above. Because of the unstressed nature of the second syllable of the word circumstance, the symbol /ə/ is still used.
 

keannu

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Thank you, your argument is quite convincing, but there's more that I need to hear. Some syllables with /ʌ/, irrespective of stress, seem to be pronounced either /ə/ or /ʌ/ without any rules like the ones mentioned so far.
 
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Even for stressed syllables, some dictionaries do not use a separate symbol for schwa /ə/ and the short u /ʌ/. When schwa is the only symbol used, it can be assumed that the word is pronounced with the short u sound. The table below compares the transcription used by Merriam-Webster OnLine Dictionary and Cambridge Dictionary of American English.

Example Dictionary Citations

Merriam-Webster
transcription
Cambridge Dictionary
transcription

cut/kət//kʌt/Play
sun/sən//sʌn/Play
love/ləv//lʌv/Play
truck/trək//trʌk/Play
stuff/stəf//stʌf/Play

i see this explanation in another site. i hope that you are looking for as i understand from you
 

keannu

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This is what I found on the internet, and according to this, the two sounds are homophones that are interchangeable, that's why I heard two sounds for "cut" and "suck". I think some Americans pronounce this way and others the other.

ESL: phonetics: comments on flesl.net IPA vowel chart
[ə] and [ʌ]
There is no important difference between the sound represented by the "schwa" symbol, [ə] — the vowel sound of the first and third syllables of the word "banana" — and the sound represented by the "open 'o' " symbol [ɑ], the vowel sound in the word "but." The first, [ə], is unstressed and the second, [x] is stressed, but the actual sounds are identical or nearly identical. This means that there are no English words which would change their meaning or become nonsense if [ə] were replaced with [ʌ] or [ʌ] with [ə] and that shows the two sounds are not separate phonemes but allophones of the same phoneme.
 

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— and the sound represented by the "open 'o' " symbol [ɑ], the vowel sound in the word "but." The first, [ə], is unstressed and the second, [x] is stressed, but the actual sounds are identical or nearly identical.
This site is unreliable. What do they mean by saying that 'but' uses a
[ɑ]? /bɑt/ is 'bot' on their own chart, not 'but' - are they claiming that [ɑ] and [ʌ] are allophones? Can Americans really not distinguish between 'bot' and 'but'? What do they mean by [x] is stressed, and what has [x] to do with vowels?

Even if
[ʌ] and [ə] are allophones with stress being the only difference, that doesn't mean you can say /bətə/ for 'butter' and expect to be understood. I'd be more convinced if one of regular American contributors admitted to saying IPA /bətə/ (rhotic or not) for 'butter'.

Note that that site does not use IPA. It uses IPA symbols for sounds different from those which those symbols denote in IPA.
If
[ə] denotes the AmE sound for 'butter', that's fine, but that doesn't make it a schwa.

 

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I also think the above explanation has too many flaws like "x" or something.
Yes, I think you are right in that IPA makes distinction between [ʌ] and [ə], but I can't abandon the experience that I heard /bətə/ for 'butter' /kət/ for 'cut' and /sək/ for 'suck' from Americans. They surely said those, and "butter" case can be verified in the link of Rachel's English I gave you.
My temperary conclusion is that for stressed vowels, they use [ʌ] and for unstressed one,[ə], but for neutral ones(mono-syllables) without having to consider stress like "but, cut, suck", both sounds can be possible.
 
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raindoctor

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The question: is the stressed vowel different from the unstressed one? Yes, it is. The stressed vowel is lower and backer than the so-called schwa, which lies in the center of the vowel space. That's the case in American dialects. Just because some word has a lexical stress (marked in dictionaries), it does not necessarily mean that people stress it all the time.
 

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I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean stressed vowels like "in·dus·trial[ɪn[SUP]|[/SUP]dʌstriəl] 's second "ʌ" can be unstressed as schwa [ə]?
 

raindoctor

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Do you mean stressed vowels like "in·dus·trial[ɪn[SUP]|[/SUP]dʌstriəl] 's second "ʌ" can be unstressed as schwa [ə]?

Yes. This was noted long time ago by Charles-James Bailey. From his paper, Taylor & Francis Online :: A new intonation theory to account for pan

"(a) In rapid tempos heavy non-nuclear accents have lowered to unaccented status, while unaccented vowels other than schwa (in idioms that preserve them) may become schwa (except word-finally) and then undergo rules affecting the loss of schwa.


(b) Morpheme boundaries drop out in rapid tempo and the boundaries of phonological phrases may be reduced in status (say, to that of word boundaries) before the application of the phonological rules.


(c) Antevocalic syllabic sonorants automatically become unsyllabic (universally) as the result of a rapid tempo."


Similarly, one need to qualify the statement that stressed voiceless stops are aspirated. Mary Beckman and Janet Pierrehumbert did research on this topic ( I don't have their paper handy). They showed that VOT (related to aspiration) depends on whether stressed syllables are pitch accented or not.
 

5jj

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Yes. This was noted long time ago by Charles-James Bailey. From his paper, Taylor & Francis Online :: A new intonation theory to account for pan

"(a) In rapid tempos heavy non-nuclear accents have lowered to unaccented status, while unaccented vowels other than schwa (in idioms that preserve them) may become schwa (except word-finally) and then undergo rules affecting the loss of schwa.

(b) Morpheme boundaries drop out in rapid tempo and the boundaries of phonological phrases may be reduced in status (say, to that of word boundaries) before the application of the phonological rules.

(c) Antevocalic syllabic sonorants automatically become unsyllabic (universally) as the result of a rapid tempo."

Similarly, one need to qualify the statement that stressed voiceless stops are aspirated. Mary Beckman and Janet Pierrehumbert did research on this topic ( I don't have their paper handy). They showed that VOT (related to aspiration) depends on whether stressed syllables are pitch accented or not.
Perhaps I am being a little dense here, but I don't quite follow all that. Could you just please confirm that you are saying that the answer to keannu's question, "Do you mean stressed vowels like "in·dus·trial[ɪn[SUP]|[/SUP]dʌstriəl] 's second "ʌ" can be unstressed as schwa [ə]?" is "Yes"?

Could you also please expand on the relevance of VOT to the question?

Thank you. :)
 

raindoctor

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Yes, /ʌ/ can become /ə/. Similarly, aspirated stops can become less aspirated. Both are related, since the results are due to whether stressed syllables are accented or not.

The gradation goes like thus:

Nuclear pitch accent > pre-nuclear pitch accent > unaccented (no pitch change) > reduced > dropped (syncope)

For instance, look at the phrase "absolutely right". If each word in that phrase becomes its own chunk, we are left with "absolutely | right". In that case, lexical stress is retained and pitch accented. When one utters with one chunk, as heard on talk shows, one hears like "absly RIGHT": in this phrase, one hears primary stressed
/æ/ vowel, the secondary stressed vowel /u/ is lost, and there is a pitch change on /aɪ/.
Similarly, aspirated stops can become unaspirated, depending on how speech is chunked (rhythmed).

That's why it is fallacious to claim that English is a stress timed language. Peter Roach showed that stress timed English doesn't sound native (check his youtube on Intonation). English is an accent timed language or tunit-timed language. Many voice over actors, impersonators, impressionists recognized this long time before the EFL instruction. But they don't use the same concepts. Instead, they use devices like "da da DA da". Frank Caliendo, who impersonates Dubbya Bush, John Madden, Charles Barkely, etc, claims he is working on Obama's impersonation, but couldn't get it right, since Obama has a distinct way of chunking speech.




 

5jj

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Yes, /ʌ/ can become /ə/. [...] etc
Quite. My questions, however, were:

Could you just please confirm that you are saying that the answer to keannu's question, "Do you mean stressed vowels like "in·dus·trial[ɪn[SUP]|[/SUP]dʌstriəl] 's second "ʌ" can be unstressed as schwa [ə]?" is "Yes"?

Could you also please expand on the relevance of VOT to the question?
 
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