[Grammar] uncountable

[atabitaraf]

The general rule is that we should use singular verb with uncountable nouns but there may be some exceptions to this rule I don't know.
Would you please give me a guide? I would be grateful.
Thanks,
ata

 

[5jj]

There are none that I know of.

 

[atabitaraf]

There are none that I know of.

Can I say police as a collective plural noun could be considered as an uncountable noun? Because we use plural form of the verb after it.

 

[5jj]

No. 'Police' functions as a plural noun.

 

[atabitaraf]

No. 'Police' functions as a plural noun.

Nouns are divided to countable and uncountable nouns. If someone ask if it is countable or uncountable what can we say?

 

[5jj]

Nouns are divided to countable and uncountable nouns. If someone ask if it is countable or uncountable what can we say?

There is no strict division. It is rather than some nouns, such as 'water', are normally used in an uncountable sense, others, such as 'man' are generally used in a countable sense. You have to judge each case by the context in which it appears. If it appears with an indefinite article in front of it, or it is used as a plural, then it is being used countably.

 

[keen learner]

No. 'Police' functions as a plural noun.

Does "Staff" function as a plural noun too?
Example: The jail staff were helpless in preventing the inmates from escaping at the time of jailbreak as they were outnumbered by them.

 

[5jj]

Speakers of AmE tend to use 'group' or 'collective' nouns as singular. In BrE, we can treat them as singulal or plural in meaning. In neither variety of English are they normally regarded as uncountable.

 

[atabitaraf]

So we'd better divide nouns into three groups: countable, uncountable, and collective nouns. Agree?

 

[5jj]

No. Most collective nouns are countable: team/teams, committee/committees, etc. It just happens that in British English we often consider the members of the group, rather than the group itself, as the subject of the verb. This does not happen in American English.

 

[atabitaraf]

So what is the result? How many categories are the nouns devided to? 1. countable, 2. uncountable, and 3. what? (plural nouns or something else?)
Which category does 'police' belong to? countable or uncountable?
Based on the definition of countable nouns, because a countable noun is a noun which is able to be counted, I think police is uncountale.

 

[5jj]

There are a small number of nouns that are plural and uncountable. These include clothes, goods, police and outskirts.

 

[atabitaraf]

Solved!
Thank you!

 

[atabitaraf]

Nouns are only divided into two groups: countable and uncountable (of course depending on the context)

 

[learning54]

There are a small number of nouns that are plural and uncountable. These include clothes, goods, police and outskirts.

Hi 5jj,
Could you tell me when 'police' is uncountable?

Thanks in advance.

 

[5jj]

Hi 5jj,
Could you tell me when 'police' is uncountable?

Thanks in advance.

I can't think of when it is ever countable. We can't have 'one police'. 'two police'.

We generally think of non-plural things when we speak of uncountable nouns, but words that are used in the plural only are used in a very similar way to non-plural uncountable nouns - except, of course for the form of the verb:

Water is essential (if you wish to stay alive)
Clothes are essential (if you go out in public).

I need some water.
I need some clothes.

I need a water.:cross:
I need a clothes.:cross:

 

[learning54]

Hi 5jj,
Thank you for your reply.

Best,
L54

 

[atabitaraf]

There are a small number of nouns that are plural and uncountable. These include clothes, goods, police and outskirts.

I found some other plural nouns which (I think) are countable like pants, scissors, pliers, pincers, etc.
You say: two pairs of pants, not two pants. Are they countable?

 

[BobK]

I found some other plural nouns which (I think) are countable like pants, scissors, pliers, pincers, etc.
You say: two pairs of pants, not two pants. Are they countable?

We usually prepend 'pair' - as you have done - although historically some of them may have been countable once. I have certainly seen 'a scissors' used in an old text, but I've never heard it in the speech of a NS.

In the matter of 'police', I agree with 5jj about its tending not to be countable. When there's a need for countability, we use the suffix '-men' (which can cause confusion when there are WPCs involved ;-)): not 'two police' but 'two policemen'. There are times when it can appear countable - because there's a numeral involved in an expreeion that doesn't truly involve counting: 'there were hundreds of police all over the place

b

 

[atabitaraf]

although historically some of them may have been countable once.
b

When you teacher say 'may have been countable' you mean they are not countable now. But I think they are countable although you prepend 'pair'. And I think 5jj agree because of the last post of his.
Thanks