Simple Past vs. Present Perfect Simple

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Chicken Sandwich

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I was just thinking, which of these two sentences is correct:

I just phoned him.

or

I have just phoned him.

To me, both seem fine, because in a sense, "just" implies a time, but it's not very specific. It seems as if I have encountered both.
I did a little research, and I came across this site ( Simple Past vs. Present Perfect Simple ), which states something rather interesting:

Note that the following explanations and exercises refer to British English only. In American English, you can normally use Simple Past instead of Present Perfect. We cannot accept this in our exercises, however, as this would lead to confusions amongst those who have to learn the differences.

Is this really true? Is AmE more flexible? So, are both sentences correct in AmE?

Thank you.
 

CarloSsS

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It is exactly as you are saying. "I just phoned him." would rarely (if ever) be uttered by a British person, but it is very common in AmE. "I have just phoned him." is used in AmE too. I think that it is widely known fact that AmE is a bit more flexible and less strict as far as English grammar is concerned. Btw. that is one of the reasons why I prefer it and try to use this variation of English.
 
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Chicken Sandwich

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Thanks. This then probably explains why some Americans respond to the following question, using a seemingly incorrect tense:

A: Have you seen this movie?
B: No, I didn't see that one.

The simple past tense is used, even though the time isn't specified. I hear this quite a lot among speakers of AmE.
 

Barb_D

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I'm surprised you say hear that quite a bit.

When someone uses present perfect in a question, we almost automatically reply in present perfect.
And most of us wouldn't say "I didn't see that one" uness 1) the opportunity to see it no longer exists, in which case "Have you see this movie?" would be an odd question, or 2) We'd already discussed a specific movie-going activity in the past, in which case the person would probably have used past simple as well.

One of the definite differences is "Eww! I just stepped in someone's gum" which I understand our British friends would not say, using "I've just stepped" instead.
 

Tdol

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Plenty of BrE speakers would say I just phoned him. We may use the present perfect more with just, but it's overstating things to say we don't use the simple past too IMO.
 

CarloSsS

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Plenty of BrE speakers would say I just phoned him. We may use the present perfect more with just, but it's overstating things to say we don't use the simple past too IMO.

But would be using past simple considered correct in such situations (with "just") as far as BrE grammar is concerned?
 

Tdol

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It depends on the sentence and context, but this one sounds fine to me.
 

CarloSsS

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How about the following sentence? Is it also acceptable in BrE?

Did you take out the rubbish yet?

As far as I know, the vast majority of BrE course books says that this is not acceptable in BrE and so is not the sentence "I just phoned him". However, I must add that while Swan's PEU supports what I said, Swan also points out that BrE is changing under the influence of AmE and these structures are becoming more common in BrE.
 
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Tdol

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That would be a question asked by a minority of BrE speakers, but not unheard of, though most of the people I can think of who would use it are Irish living in the UK. That one is more likely to be unacceptable to many BrE speakers.
 

SoothingDave

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What is unacceptable about it? Should it be "have you taken out..."?
 

CarloSsS

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What is unacceptable about it? Should it be "have you taken out..."?

NOT A TEACHER

Yes, that is what most BrE texts and course books say.
 

Chicken Sandwich

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It's interesting that in Dutch, a language closely related to English, there is also no hard and fast rule which tells you when to use the past simple or the present perfect simple. For example, both the past simple and present perfect simple sound fine in conjuction with "just". However, the past simple makes no sense in conjuction with "recently". In English however, this sounds fine (to me at least): Recently, I saw a movie called Jurassic Park, but in Dutch, it just sounds wrong: Recent zag ik een film genaamd Jurassic Park.

I'm surprised you say hear that quite a bit.

Ok, maybe I got the context wrong. Maybe it went like this:

Q: Did you see this movie?
A: No, I didn't see that one.

I'll try to pay attention and see if I hear something like that again.
 
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5jj

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My personal opinion is that many British coursebooks are a little too precious about the 'Britishness' of the present perfect in such cases. I agree that with very-recent-past events such as the taking out of the dustbin, we British tend, without further context, to prefer the present perfect, especially when we use the words 'just' or 'yet'. However, the past simple is not as uncommon as some British writers and teachers claim. It is acceptable and natural if we are looking back at what we consider to be a past action:

A (speaking at 17.00): I'll take the dustbin out when this programme ends.

B (speaking at 19.00): Did you take the dustbin out?
 

CarloSsS

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My personal opinion is that many British coursebooks are a little too precious about the 'Britishness' of the present perfect in such cases. I agree that with very-recent-past events such as the taking out of the dustbin, we British tend, without further context, to prefer the present perfect, especially when we use the words 'just' or 'yet'. However, the past simple is not as uncommon as some British writers and teachers claim. It is acceptable and natural if we are looking back at what we consider to be a past action:

A (speaking at 17.00): I'll take the dustbin out when this programme ends.

B (speaking at 19.00): Did you take the dustbin out?

What if I change B like this? The context remains the same.

B (speaking at 19.00): Did you take the dustbin out yet?

Is it still all right for you? In my view, if you add the word "yet", it implies that the speaker does not consider taking out the trash a past action and thus is much more likely to use present perfect.

P.S. Welcome back 5. I hope you enjoyed your vacation.
 

5jj

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What if I change B like this? The context remains the same.

B (speaking at 19.00): Did you take the dustbin out yet?

Is it still all right for you? In my view, if you add the word "yet", it implies that the speaker does not consider taking out the trash a past action and thus is much more likely to use present perfect.
I did say in my last post that we tend to prefer the present perfect with 'yet'.
P.S. Welcome back 5. I hope you enjoyed your vacation.
Thanks. I did.
 

Chicken Sandwich

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Just to confirm, would both of the sentences below be considered "correct" in BrE?

Recently, I saw a movie called Jurassic Park.

Recently, I've seen a movie called Jurassic Park.
 

Tdol

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With recently, you can use the past or present perfect, though the present perfect is more common in negative sentences in BrE.
 
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