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  1. eggcracker's Avatar
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    #1

    Is "would have p.p" used to make sentence more ambiguous than "would"?

    Hello.
    When someone is expecting the following result if something occasioned after certain event in the past, then I think there will be "would" in the sentence to indicate the possible results in the past.
    And I wonder if "would have p.p" is similar to "would" in this light, but "would have p.p" will be used as a expression more ambiguous than "would". So I supposed "would have p.p" is similar to the expression "Maybe/Perhaps ~would~"(more ambiguous than "would".
    Are these sentences(1, 2) are grammatical and mean still the same thing even the structures are changed? If not, would anyone please give me explanation about these or correction? I will be grateful for help.


    1."I would have liked being with them."
    ="Maybe/Perhaps I(the narrator) would like being with them(if something happened to narrator)."


    2."The VIP would have arrived at the hotel front by now."
    ="Maybe/Perhaps VIP would arrive at the front by now."
    Last edited by eggcracker; 20-Jun-2012 at 15:56. Reason: liked-like arrived-arrive

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    #2

    Re: Is "would have p.p" used to make sentence more ambiguous than "would"?

    So I supposed "would have p.p" is similar to the expression "Maybe/Perhaps ~would~"(more ambiguous than "would".
    Don't suppose this.

  2. eggcracker's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: Is "would have p.p" used to make sentence more ambiguous than "would"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    Don't suppose this.
    Is there any omitted sentence containing structure such as "If~ had p.p"? These structures are foreign to me because I've thought there will be "had p.p" on the back of or in front of sentence if it contains one of the would have p.p, could have p.p, might have p.p, because of what I had learned before. I googled would have again, but I couldn't find quite appropriate explanation.
    So, I'm guessing the sentence again.
    In my opinion,
    1."I would have liked being with them." means
    "(If they had done something), I would have liked being with them."

    2."The VIP would have arrived at the hotel front by now." means
    "
    The VIP would have arrived at the hotel front by now, (If time had passed~ o' clock or certain time)."

    If it's not correct. Sorry for my poor understanding. I couldn't think of any better idea to understand the above sentences other than supposing the sentences what I didn't know.

  3. 5jj's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: Is "would have p.p" used to make sentence more ambiguous than "would"?

    Let's look at things in some sort of order. In this post we'll look at 'would like'. It has two main clusters of meanings:

    1. It is the form of 'like' used with 'would' in hypothetical conditional clauses.

    I don't like Mr Postule; he's too old, and has no money. I would like him if he were younger or richer.
    I didn't like my teacher at primary school; she was unfriendly. I would have liked her if she had been friendlier.

    2. It is an idiomatic form (simiar to forms in many other Indo-European languages) with a meaning close to that of 'want'

    I would like a beer.... .. I would like to see Mary.
    I would have liked a beer.
    .....
    I would have liked to see Mary.

    It makes life easier if you do not consider these as conditional in sense. There is no if clause, explicit or implicit. (Some writers and teachers try to imagine an implicit if clause, but I feel that this complicates matter unnecessarily.)

    .....I would lie to ee Mary.

  4. tzfujimino's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: Is "would have p.p" used to make sentence more ambiguous than "would"?

    Quote Originally Posted by eggcracker View Post
    Is there any omitted sentence containing structure such as "If~ had p.p"?

    Yes, I agree with you on that point.
    The "If..." part is 'understood' in context, I suppose.

  5. tzfujimino's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: Is "would have p.p" used to make sentence more ambiguous than "would"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    Let's look at things in some sort of order. In this post we'll look at 'would like'. It has two main clusters of meanings:

    1. It is the form of 'like' used with 'would' in hypothetical conditional clauses.

    I don't like Mr Postule; he's too old, and has no money. I would like him if he were younger or richer.
    I didn't like my teacher at primary school; she was unfriendly. I would have liked her if she had been friendlier.

    2. It is an idiomatic form (simiar to forms in many other Indo-European languages) with a meaning close to that of 'want'

    I would like a beer.... .. I would like to see Mary.
    I would have liked a beer.
    .....
    I would have liked to see Mary.

    It makes life easier if you do not consider these as conditional in sense. There is no if clause, explicit or implicit. (Some writers and teachers try to imagine an implicit if clause, but I feel that this complicates matter unnecessarily.)

    .....I would lie to ee Mary.
    You responded much faster.
    Thank you for your second point.

  6. eggcracker's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: Is "would have p.p" used to make sentence more ambiguous than "would"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post

    Thank you 5jj. I think I catch most of the meaning in the sentences I asked and you gave. Please see if I'm thinking okay.

    I would have liked a beer.
    =I wanted a beer./I would enjoy a beer.....
    I would have liked to see Mary. =I wanted to see Mary.
    .....I would lie to ee Mary.
    Can't those sentences be similar or same?

  7. 5jj's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: Is "would have p.p" used to make sentence more ambiguous than "would"?

    Quote Originally Posted by eggcracker View Post
    Please see if I'm thinking okay.

    I would have liked a beer.
    =I wanted a beer. YES /I would enjoy a beer.
    ..NO..
    I would have liked to see Mary. =I wanted to see Mary.YES.....I would lie to ee Mary.
    Can't those sentences be similar YES or the same?Not exactly the same.
    'I would enjoy a beer' can have a similar meaning to 'I would like a beer', but not to 'I would have liked a beer'.
    Last edited by 5jj; 20-Jun-2012 at 20:07. Reason: typo

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