[General] Some questions about Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.

[Silverobama]

Hi,

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

I would ask several questions about the first paragraph first and ask other questions later.

a)Does the "brought forth" mean that "our fathers established on this continent a new nation", here refers to the US?
b)How to understand "conceived in liberty", what puzzles me is that this is a phrase rather than a sentence, is this phrase a part of "It's conceived in liberty"? How to understand "conceived in liberty", did Lincoln mean that the country is established toward the goal of gaining liberty?
c)How to understand the "proposition", does it mean "aim, goal, or plan or task"?


Thanks a lot

 

[5jj]

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Lincoln was using a childbirth image, The idea that was to become the nation was fertilised in/by the principle of liberty, and was 'delivered' into the world as the United States by our fathers 87 year before.

 

[Silverobama]

Lincoln was using a childbirth image, The idea that was to become the nation was fertilised in/by the principle of liberty, and was 'delivered' into the world as the United States by our fathers 87 year before.

Thanks a lot, five.

I can understand your explanation. But does the proposition mean "plan"?

 

[charliedeut]

Hi,

c)How to understand the "proposition", does it mean "aim, goal, or plan or task"?

Hi,

proposition - WordReference.com Dictionary of English. I'd go for Definition #1 of "proposition".

Greetings,

charliedeut

 

[SoothingDave]

You can also understand "proposition" here as the "idea" that all men are created equal.

 

[Silverobama]

Thanks a lot.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

a)Does the "that nation" mean "the US"?
b)Does the "that war" refer to "Civil War"?
c)When Lincoln said "We have come to dedicate a portion of that field", does he mean "we have come to dedicate a portion of our lives to that field"? And "that filed" means the "battle field"?
d)The "that nation" in the last sentence means "the US", doesn't it?

Thanks a lot

 

[5jj]

a)Does the "that nation" mean "the US"? Yes. There is no other nation it can refer to.
b)Does the "that war" refer to "Civil War"? Yes. There is no other war it can refer to.
c)When Lincoln said "We have come to dedicate a portion of that field", does he mean "we have come to dedicate a portion of our lives to that field"? No. It means what the words say: "We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place ..."
And "that filed" means the "battle field"? Yes. There is no other field it can refer to.
d)The "that nation" in the last sentence means "the US", doesn't it? Yes. There is no other nation it can refer to.

5

 

[SoothingDave]

Thanks a lot.



a)Does the "that nation" mean "the US"?
b)Does the "that war" refer to "Civil War"?
c)When Lincoln said "We have come to dedicate a portion of that field", does he mean "we have come to dedicate a portion of our lives to that field"? And "that filed" means the "battle field"?
d)The "that nation" in the last sentence means "the US", doesn't it?

Thanks a lot

Why would Lincoln go to the site of a recent battle during the middle of a war and give a speech about some other war in some other nation? Does that make any sense at all?

 

[Silverobama]

Thanks a lot.

How to understand "dedicate a portion of"

 

[Barb_D]

The battle took place over a larger area - a whole town. The dead were burried in a portion of that area.

If you care, this is pretty near where I live. We visited last year. The number of injured left behind outnumbered the entire population of the town by about 2 to 1, if I recall.

 

[Silverobama]

The battle took place over a larger area - a whole town. The dead were burried in a portion of that area.

If you care, this is pretty near where I live. We visited last year. The number of injured left behind outnumbered the entire population of the town by about 2 to 1, if I recall.

Thanks a lot, I do care. I admire FDR and Lincoln.

 

[Silverobama]

Here is the first question of the third paragraph:

But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

I guess the all the "dedicates" in this address mean the same, am I right? If so, which word can I use to replace it so as to understand the whole passage better, can I say "sacrifice"?

 

[SoothingDave]

Here is the first question of the third paragraph:



I guess the all the "dedicates" in this address mean the same, am I right? If so, which word can I use to replace it so as to understand the whole passage better, can I say "sacrifice"?

No, this "dedicated" is talking about the living, not the dedication of a field as a memorial place. It is talking about the committment, the dedication to a cause that the living take on to continue the work that the dead have given their lives for.

 

[Silverobama]

Thanks a lot,

But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract.

a)I guess the three words "dedicate, consecrate, hallow" in this sentence mean the same, don't they?
b)And should the first sentence be "But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate (this ground), we cannot consecrate (this ground)"?
c)And I am wondering if the reason when Lincoln said "We cannot dedicate....", because "The brave men have consecrated here"?


It is really a difficult address to understand, I hope everyone can be considerate of my questions.

 

[SoothingDave]

1. Not exactly. You can dedicate something without consecrating it. If I dedicate a new community swimming pool, I am not setting it aside as a holy place, a spiritual place.
2. No, it's fine as it is. Yes, your understanding of it is correct. The three verbs share the same direct object.
3. Yes, that's the idea. The men gave their lives here. Anything we say or do is less than what they have already done to make the place "special."

 

[Silverobama]

1. Not exactly. You can dedicate something without consecrating it. If I dedicate a new community swimming pool, I am not setting it aside as a holy place, a spiritual place.
2. No, it's fine as it is. Yes, your understanding of it is correct. The three verbs share the same direct object.
3. Yes, that's the idea. The men gave their lives here. Anything we say or do is less than what they have already done to make the place "special."

Thanks a lot, SoothingDave.

I think "the men" in "The men gave their lives here" refers to "our fathers", right?

 

[SoothingDave]

No, the dead soldiers who fought at Gettysburg during the Civil War.

 

[Silverobama]

It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced.

a)Why Lincoln used "to be dedicated" rather than "to dedicate"?
b)How to understand "thus far so"? Do all these adverbs work as emphases?

 

[SoothingDave]

a) Lincoln is talking about the living being dedicated to continuing the cause for which the dead gave their lives
b) He talks here of the "unfinished work." The dead have "so nobly advanced" the "work" up until now and up until this point (thus far). It is up to the living to now dedicate themselves to continuing this work.