[Vocabulary] "on this day" or "this day"

Status
Not open for further replies.

heyt

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Hungarian
Home Country
Hungary
Current Location
Hungary
Hello,

I'd like to ask you a question that I've been thinking about for quite a while.

It is as follows:
Should I use or not the preposition 'on' in these sentences:

'25 August is going to be a really special occasion, they're getting married on that day.'

Or: 'Today is our anniversary.We got married on this day ten years ago.'

Does using on in these phrases depend on whether I use British or American English?Or does it depend on whether i'm referring to the past or the future?

I'm looking forward to your reply.

Thank you very much,
:roll:
heyt
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
'25 August is going to be a really special occasion, they're getting married on that day.'
It's not necessary in that example.

Or: 'Today is our anniversary.We got married on this day ten years ago.'
In my opinion, this sentence doesn't work without "on".



See above for my opinion (BrE).
 

heyt

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Hungarian
Home Country
Hungary
Current Location
Hungary
Thank you very much for your answer!

Is it because we are talking about the future in the first sentence and about the past in the second one?
Is it possible to find a rule for it in everyday language use?

Thank you very much,
heyt :cool:
 

abaka

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
It's rather subtle.

I agree with Emsr2d2's judgement of what works and what doesn't, but I can't formulate it as a rule. It's not difficult to find examples for both "this day" and "that day", in the present, past, and future, both with or without the "on". (Google is your friend.)

It may be true that "on this day" is more common than the plain "this day", but on the other hand something like "this very day" is very common without the "on".

Actually, the word "today" is an elision of the phrase "this day". Perhaps that is the reason why the plain two-word "this day" may be rather less common than "that day": wherever the older language said plainly "this day" we now say "today". Note too how we never say "on today".

Obviously, I am speculating.
 
Last edited:

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic

abaka

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
Yes, I was wrong on that point. Etymologically today = "to day", which explains why "on today" ("on to day", double preposition) just does not work. I stand by the rest of what I said, namely that although examples of all kinds can be found, for whatever reason "on this day" sounds more natural than plain "this day" in every example I can immediately think of, but "that day" sounds equally well with or without the "on".
 

BobK

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Location
Spencers Wood, near Reading, UK
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
:up: [this was directed to 5jj] The 'this' idea may have come from Romance languages, which all :)-?... well, I can't think of any counter-examples) have the root hoc (Latin 'this') of hodie: Sp hoy, It oggi, Pg hoje...

In Fr aujourd'hui it is well camouflaged, but 'this' is still there (in the last syllable).

b
 

charliedeut

VIP Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Spanish
Home Country
Spain
Current Location
Spain
:up: The 'this' idea may have come from Romance languages, which all :)-?... well, I can't think of any counter-examples) have the root hoc (Latin 'this') of hodie: Sp hoy, It oggi, Pg hoje...

In Fr aujourd'hui it is well camouflaged, but 'this' is still there (in the last syllable).

b

Romanian for "today": astăzi (hoy - hallo.ro | Dic) This seems to be an exception among Romance languages.
Catalan for "today": avui (see the similarity with French)
 

birdeen's call

VIP Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Polish
Home Country
Poland
Current Location
Poland
Romanian for "today": astăzi (hoy - hallo.ro | Dic) This seems to be an exception among Romance languages.
Catalan for "today": avui (see the similarity with French)

The Romanian word has the Latin word for "that" in it instead of the Latin word for "this". :)

The Catalan word comes from "hodie" as other words BobK mentioned. The French word is actually pleonastic -- it's literally "on the day of today" ("el día de hoy" in Spanish). Here's a video in French about the word. The speaker speaks so clearly that even I understood what he was talking about even though I don't generally understand spoken French.
 

BobK

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Location
Spencers Wood, near Reading, UK
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Romanian for "today": astăzi (hoy - hallo.ro | Dic) This seems to be an exception among Romance languages.
Catalan for "today": avui (see the similarity with French)

Possibly. But as you say the Catalan is like the French, though with most of the clues to the additions (au = 'at the', jour= 'day', d' = 'of') missing, leaving little sign of the derivation. My Romanian is limited to the verb for 'to fold' (don't ask! ;-)), so I think, as they say, 'the jury's still out'!

b

PS My guess, for what it's worth, is that whereas many languages have their 'this' deriving from the Classical Latin hoc, Romanian uses as the source for its 'this' the Vulgar Latin IST(E). (People with a little knowledge of Latin may object 'But Classical Latin already had the word iste -a -ud; but that meant 'the very same' [as in the It stesso]). But I think I'm talking to myself now...
 
Last edited:

birdeen's call

VIP Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Polish
Home Country
Poland
Current Location
Poland
PS My guess, for what it's worth, is that whereas many languages have their 'this' deriving from the Classical Latin hoc, Romanian uses as the source for its 'this' the Vulgar Latin IST(E). (People with a little knowledge of Latin may object 'But Classical Latin already had the word iste -a -ud; but that meant 'the very same' [as in the It stesso]). But I think I'm talking to myself now...

Indeed. "Astă" is the singular feminine form of "ăst", "this", an alternative form being "ist". "Zi" means day.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top