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  1. keannu's Avatar
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    #1

    In fact, certain goals are achievable only if eveyone benefits.

    1. What does "certain goals are achievable only if eveyone benefits" mean? If there's a loser in an argument, he will become a loser, not befiniting from anything.
    2. What does "only if the arguer's attempt at rational persuasion is successful" mean? If someone wins in argument, does the loser support his glory? Without the loser, the winner won't look more valuable. Is this what it intends to say?

    330-148
    ex)Argumentation is an essentially cooperative enterprise. Arguers play certain funtional roles within an argumentative context, and there are distinct goals associated with each of these roles. Arguers are committed to the inculcation of rational belief in audiene members, who in turn, when engaged by an argument, are receptive to the possibility of being persuaded to alter their beliefs through an appeal to evidence. By achieving these goals, each can benefit, in different ways, from the practice of rational persuasion. ...In fact, certain goals are achievable only if eveyone benefits. For example, an audience member can be rationally persuaded by an arguer's argument only if the arguer's attempt at rational persuasion is successful. So each party has an interest in working cooperatively with the other.

  2. charliedeut's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: In fact, certain goals are achievable only if eveyone benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    For example, an audience member can be rationally persuaded by an arguer's argument only if the arguer's attempt at rational persuasion is successful. So each party has an interest in working cooperatively with the other.
    Hi,

    IMO, it means that the audience member will only be persuaded if the arguer "presses the right buttons" of the other person's rational thinking, that is, if the arguer can find a path to how the listenter's logic works.

    Therefore, both the arguer and the listener benefit from this: the arguer has "won" the argument because the listener is likely to change his mind. The listener, in turn, benefits because s/he believes to have found a more sound way to approach a certain issue, thanks to the arguer's persuasion.

    charliedeut
    Please be aware that I'm neither a native English speaker nor a teacher.

  3. keannu's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: In fact, certain goals are achievable only if eveyone benefits.

    What do you think this "appeal" means in the 3rd line? The translation is "attraction", but I also think of "a request for a decision". I think it depends on who "appeals". Is it the arguer or the audience?

  4. charliedeut's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: In fact, certain goals are achievable only if eveyone benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    What do you think this "appeal" means in the 3rd line? The translation is "attraction", but I also think of "a request for a decision". I think it depends on who "appeals". Is it the arguer or the audience?
    Hi,

    Appeal #4. The audience are made to like the evidence presented and are, therefore, more likely to change their opinions.

    charliedeut
    Please be aware that I'm neither a native English speaker nor a teacher.

  5. keannu's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: In fact, certain goals are achievable only if eveyone benefits.

    Actually, this seems kind of abstract. Can you take an example? Especially the two underlined parts.
    .............
    it means that the audience member will only be persuaded if the arguer "presses the right buttons" of the other person's rational thinking, that is, if the arguer can find a path to how the listenter's logic works.

  6. charliedeut's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: In fact, certain goals are achievable only if eveyone benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    Actually, this seems kind of abstract. Can you take an example? Especially the two underlined parts.
    .............
    it means that the audience member will only be persuaded if the arguer "presses the right buttons" of the other person's rational thinking, that is, if the arguer can find a path to how the listenter's logic works.
    Hi,

    I meant that if you want to convince anyone about something, first you must know what the other person considers important: sheer logic, subjective reasoning, a mixture of both... and then use those arguments (the right buttons) to persuade him/her.

    If your listener thinks the death penalty should be abolished (random example), then explaining him/her the legal technicalities of its application would be pressing the wrong buttons and s/he would probably end up bored to death (ironically) and wouldn't pay attention beyond your first sentence (let alone change his/her mind about the issue).

    charliedeut
    Please be aware that I'm neither a native English speaker nor a teacher.

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