"I suggest that he study" or "I suggest that he studies"?

Status
Not open for further replies.

confused123

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Singapore
Current Location
Singapore
- I suggest that he study.

Could someone explain to me why the verb "study" in the above sentence is not "studies". Could anyone give me some examples like the above which defy the rule that says something like "one person gives" and "many people give" sort of thing please? Thank you so much.
 

billmcd

Key Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
- I suggest that he study.

Could someone explain to me why the verb "study" in the above sentence is not "studies". Could anyone give me some examples like the above which defy the rule that says something like "one person gives" and "many people give" sort of thing please? Thank you so much.

Check out englishpage.com and use of the subjunctive.
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
There are many threads on the subject in this forum; some of them can be found here.

The short answer is that 'study' in your sentence is a present subjunctive form. There are several possibilities for this sentence:

I suggest that he study. Present subjunctive. Not very common in BrE. More common in AmE
I suggest that he studies. Present Indicative. Quite common in BrE, Considered sub-standard by some, especially some speakers of AmE.
I suggest that he should study. Quite common in BrE.

Note that I suggest that he studies can, in the right context, mean I suggest the idea that it may be the case that he studies.
 

confused123

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Singapore
Current Location
Singapore
Check out englishpage.com and use of the subjunctive.

Yes, I did check out englishpage.com. It was from there that I couldn't understand what it says that I hope someone here could explain to me in more simple terms. I think now I am totally baffled by this in the way it is used. Now I don't know when I should be using the plural form of a verb for he or she and how to use it correctly. I really hope someone here could explain me in a more simple way. Thank you all very much.
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
Now I don't know when I should be using the plural form of a verb for he or she and how to use it correctly. I really hope someone here could explain me in a more simple way. Thank you all very much.
You are using the present subjunctive form, not the plural form. I did mention this in my last post. I also provided a link to several discussions on this topic.
 

TheParser

VIP Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
NOT A TEACHER


Hello, confused:

The following is the opinion of a non-teacher and an American.

1. In American English, most speakers use the so-called subjunctive.

a. That is why most Americans say, "If I were the president, I would ...." (Many people, however, say,"If I WAS president, I would ....")

2. Please study this dialogue:

Teacher: Your son is doing very poorly in my class.
Mother: What can he do about the problem?
Teacher: Well, he seems to be very intelligent. I suggest that he study harder.

a. We use the so-called subjunctive because we are not talking about reality. The teacher is only making a suggestion.

b. Here are some more examples:

i. Your son doesn't pay attention in my class. I recommend that he sleep a little more each night.
ii. Mona eats too fast. (That's a fact.) I suggest that she eat more slowly. (That is not reality -- only my suggestion)
iii. The bus always comes late. I am going to write to the bus company and demand that it come on time each day.

3. I know that it is very difficult to understand. It is impossible to explain everything in a single post. After you have read the links that other posters have given you, please feel free to ask any questions that you have.

4. By the way, another poster has said that occasionally a sentence similar to "I suggest that he studies too much"

can be "correct." Why? Well, please study this dialogue:

Mother: My son is always very tired.
Physician (medical doctor): Does he get 8 hours of sleep every night?
Mother: No, he studies until 11 p.m. every night.
Physician: Well, I suggest ( = think) that he studies too much. I suggest that he go to bed earlier.


HAVE A NICE DAY!
 

confused123

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Singapore
Current Location
Singapore
NOT A TEACHER



2. Please study this dialogue:

Teacher: Your son is doing very poorly in my class.
Mother: What can he do about the problem?
Teacher: Well, he seems to be very intelligent. I suggest that he study harder.

a. We use the so-called subjunctive because we are not talking about reality. The teacher is only making a suggestion.

b. Here are some more examples:

i. Your son doesn't pay attention in my class. I recommend that he sleep a little more each night.
ii. Mona eats too fast. (That's a fact.) I suggest that she eat more slowly. (That is not reality -- only my suggestion)
iii. The bus always comes late. I am going to write to the bus company and demand that it come on time each day.


HAVE A NICE DAY!

Thank you so much everyone, especially TheParser!

Well TheParser, thank you so much for making this easier to understand for me compared to reading from englishpage.com. There is so much here for me to digest and I need to read up all the links posted here too. I will definitely get back to you all regarding this, after I am done reading, because it's such a fascinating topic for me.

But one more thing TheParser. In your example, "Teacher: Well, he seems to be very intelligent. I suggest that he study harder.", can I use the BrE in this sentence like "Teacher: Well, he seems to be very intelligent. I suggest that he studies harder." and be correct as well?

And for your other examples:
i. Your son doesn't pay attention in my class. I recommend that he sleep a little more each night.
ii. Mona eats too fast. (That's a fact.) I suggest that she eat more slowly. (That is not reality -- only my suggestion)
iii. The bus always comes late. I am going to write to the bus company and demand that it come on time each day.

Can I also use the BrE or simple the present indicative as shown below and be correct as well:
i. Your son doesn't pay attention in my class. I recommend that he sleeps a little more each night.
ii. Mona eats too fast. (That's a fact.) I suggest that she eats more slowly. (That is not reality -- only my suggestion)
iii. The bus always comes late. I am going to write to the bus company and demand that it comes on time each day.

Please advise me. Thank you so much. By the way, are the present subjunctive form and present indicative form the same thing but used in a different way? To me, it seems like the present subjunctive form simply takes away the 's' in the verb whereas the present indicative remains true to the way I learned English in my school days. Can I use the present indicative instead of the subjunctive form in all the examples you provided in your earlier post? Any difference?

Thank you so much.
 

Winwin2011

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Hong Kong
Current Location
Hong Kong
Not a teacher

check out The Subjunctive

Michael Swan, Pratical English Usage (567) Subjunctive

Some languages have special verb forms called 'Subjunctive', which are used especially to talk about 'unreal situations': things which are possible, desirable or imgainary. Older English had subjunctives, but in modern English they have mostly been replaced by uses of should, would and other modal verbs, by special uses of past tenses and by ordinary verb forms. English only has a few subjunctive forms left: third-person singular present verbs without-(e)s, (e.g. she see, he have)......
 
Last edited:

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
But one more thing TheParser. In your example, "Teacher: Well, he seems to be very intelligent. I suggest that he study harder.", can I use the BrE in this sentence like "Teacher: Well, he seems to be very intelligent. I suggest that he studies harder." and be correct as well?
Not many would object to that in BrE. If you are learning AmE, then use the subjunctive form.
 

TheParser

VIP Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
NOT A TEACHER


Thank you very much for your kind remarks.

1. I do not dare comment on British English. I am still trying to learn American English. I believe that 5jj, a British

gentleman, has answered some of your questions.

2. Yes, as the British say, you are spot on: the so-called present subjunctive is simply the third-person indicative

minus the "s."

a. I do not know what your native language is, but does it have a distinctive subjunctive form? I have been trying to

learn Spanish, and I can tell you that the subjunctive in Spanish is very much alive!
 
Last edited:

charliedeut

VIP Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Spanish
Home Country
Spain
Current Location
Spain
3. I am not allowed to give my personal views on the use of the subjunctive, so I shall end my post and wish you a very
nice day!

TheParser, I believe you're taking certain things to heart in an unnecessary way. However, check with moderators to see which personal views are acceptable and which aren't. :up:


Personal views most often convey what we non-natives most often seek: the insider's point of view/usage of certain words or expressions.

charliedeut
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
Anyone is free to give their opinions on the use of the subjunctive here. There has never been any suggestion that they aren't.
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
I shall henceforth censor myself in order to avoid being deleted or banned for "straying from the discussion of
language."
You might consider censoring yourself on this topic. You have alluded to it in several threads. To the best of my knowledge you have never been deleted or banned in this forum. You have, on occasion, been asked not to stray too far off topic. So have I. Such requests usually help ensure that a thread doesn't get too bogged down in irrelevancies.

Now lets get back to confused's question.
 

abaka

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
It's probably fair to say every studious learner of English, both native and foreign, goes through a fascination with the pitiful remnants of the subjunctive.

But the best advice I can give is to avoid it.

Even when used correctly, it is stiff, and the demand, suggestion, or request that someone do something is an official or an officious one.

On the other hand, to use the ordinary present is wrong, except it seems in the homeland British variant.

So it's best to say "that someone SHOULD do something".

With the "should", the sentence is in no way objectionable: the request or suggestion comes off as more lively and, I dare say it, human rather than robotic.
 

Barb_D

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Member Type
Other
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
But the best advice I can give is to avoid it.

Even when used correctly, it is stiff, and the demand, suggestion, or request that someone do something is an official or an officious one.
...
With the "should", the sentence is in no way objectionable: the request or suggestion comes off as more lively and, I dare say it, human rather than robotic.

That advice is not good advice for people learning American English. It's alive and well here, it's not considered stuffy, and you don't sound like a robot.

On the other hand "I suggest that he should study" would sound decidedly un-American in tone. Not incorrect, but not American.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top