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    #1

    He (always makes, will always make) noises --HABITS

    This is my first thread post. I do not know where exactly I should post this type of question.

    Well, I am studying about Verb Tenses. I just found out that Simple Future can be used to express habits.


    Ex. He will always make noises when we are sleeping.

    My question is what is the difference without the "will" (He always makes noises when we are sleeping.)?

    Is there a difference in terms of usage and context?

    P.S Which between the two tenses is used preferably by a native speaker in English?

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    #2

    Re: He (always makes, will always make) noises --HABITS

    "Will" is often, but not exclusively, used to describe irritating habits. Making noises in bed can be very irritating. But this is definitely not the whole story. "Will" is sometimes used to describe habits that are not irritating as well. Unfortunately, I don't know how to give you a complete picture.

  1. Barb_D's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: He (always makes, will always make) noises --HABITS

    Welcome to Using English.
    Thank you so much for giving your thread a good title and using proper English in your question.

    Simple present expresses habit. He always makes noises when we are trying to sleep.
    Present continuous is also used to show that you are annoyed about a habit: He is always making noises when we are trying to sleep!
    Last edited by Rover_KE; 10-Sep-2012 at 07:47.
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

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    #4

    Re: He (always makes, will always make) noises --HABITS

    Thank you for the quick replies.

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    "Will" is often, but not exclusively, used to describe irritating habits. Making noises in bed can be very irritating. But this is definitely not the whole story. "Will" is sometimes used to describe habits that are not irritating as well. Unfortunately, I don't know how to give you a complete picture.
    So you mean it is used when the speaker is annoyed of someone on his/her actions. I would also like to know the other uses if possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barb_D View Post
    Welcome to Using English.
    Thank you so much for giving your thread a good title and using proper English in your question.

    Simple present expresses habit. He always make noise when we are trying to sleep.
    Present continuous is also used to show that you are annoyed about a habit: He is always making noise when we are trying to sleep!
    Ok, this adds another question to what I just posted. If both the present continuous (He is always making noise when we are trying to sleep!) and future continuous (He will always make noises when we are sleeping!) express annoyance, what are their difference or is the present continuous form is just another way to say it?



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    #5

    Re: He (always makes, will always make) noises --HABITS

    Quote Originally Posted by tatoearashiga View Post
    So you mean it is used when the speaker is annoyed of someone on his/her actions. I would also like to know the other uses if possible.
    Sorry, all I can give you is some sentences. I can't explain them satisfactorily. (See the links for context.)

    Sometimes I will just wake up in the middle of the night and spit out some random recipe and be like yep thats what I am making tomorrow!
    Or I will just be getting my tire changed (got a flat :( bummer) looking through a magazine and see the perfect thing that I just gotta make!

    (ABpetite: Chinese Noodle Salad)

    Typically a cow's ovulation is a bit irregular, with the heat periods lasting for a shorter time than usual, and she will often come back into heat a week after her first one.

    (How soon will a cow come into standing heat after having a calf)

    This is so unsettling to me because usually Tom will eventually understand things when I take the time to explain my feelings to him and when he sits long enough to listen to me and.... my reasons for my concerns.


    (Tamy's tales: The Difference Between...)

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    #6

    Re: He (always makes, will always make) noises --HABITS

    Quote Originally Posted by tatoearashiga View Post
    Well, I am studying about Verb Tenses. I just found out that Simple Future can be used to express habits.
    Try not to think of this as the future simple being used for habits. The modal will has several uses, one of which is to express futurity.

    1. The host city of the 2016 Olympic games will be Rio de Janeiro.
    2. John will talk for hours about his garden once he's started.


    In #1, the speaker is indicating a future certainty. Some people call this use of will the 'future simple'In #2, the speaker is indicating a characteristic of John. There is no way in which we can regard this use of will as an indication of futurity.

    2. John will talk for hours about his garden once he's started.
    3. John always talks about his garden when we have guests.
    4. John is always talking about his garden.

    In all three of theses sentences, the speaker is indicating that John often talks about his garden. The difference in meaning is not necessarily significant, but there is a difference.

    In #2, the use of will suggests that this is a characteristic of John. It may or may not be an annoying characteristic. Only context can tell us that.
    in #3, the speaker is simply telling us about something that happens regularly.
    In #4,
    the use of always, normally associated by virtue of its meaning with the unmarked tense seems at first sight illogical. However, the use of the progressive aspect with an action can stress the repetition of that action. The combination of the progressive aspct and always tells us that this is a situation that actualises repeatedly, but because the duration of the whole series of talking is limited, it is not presented as a permanent state of affairs

    This combination is associated by some writers with some idea of the speaker's emotional attitude, but this will be made explicit not just by the words, but by the whole context of situation and the speaker's tone. It is not true to suggest that it always expresses the speaker's irritation; with change of tone of voice and facial expression, the person uttering #4could express irritation, resignation, amusement or a number of other feelings. Here, as is almost always the case in English, it is context and other factors that express feelings, not simply the words. The combination can just as easily be used to express pleasure, as in:


    5. He's always buying me flowers.


    Here's another use of will that is not really a 'future simple':

    6. Our guest speaker can't make it this evening. Don't worry; John will talk about his garden.

    Here, the talking is in the future, but the speaker is mainly indicating John's willingness to talk.
    Last edited by 5jj; 10-Sep-2012 at 08:57.

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    #7

    Re: He (always makes, will always make) noises --HABITS

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    Try not to think of this as the future simple being used for habits. The modal will has several uses, one of which is to express futurity.

    1. The host city of the 2016 Olympic games will be Rio de Janeiro.
    2. John will talk for hours about his garden once he's started.


    In #1, the speaker is indicating a future certainty. Some people call this use of will the 'future simple'In #2, the speaker is indicating a characteristic of John. There is no way in which we can regard this use of will as an indication of futurity.

    2. John will talk for hours about his garden once he's started.
    3. John always talks about his garden when we have guests.
    4. John is always talking about his garden.

    In all three of theses sentences, the speaker is indicating that John often talks about his garden. The difference in meaning is not necessarily significant, but there is a difference.

    In #2, the use of will suggests that this is a characteristic of John. It may or may not be an annoying characteristic. Only context can tell us that.
    in #3, the speaker is simply telling us about something that happens regularly.
    In #4,
    the use of always, normally associated by virtue of its meaning with the unmarked tense seems at first sight illogical. However, the use of the progressive aspect with an action can stress the repetition of that action. The combination of the progressive aspct and always tells us that this is a situation that actualises repeatedly, but because the duration of the whole series of talking is limited, it is not presented as a permanent state of affairs

    This combination is associated by some writers with some idea of the speaker's emotional attitude, but this will be made explicit not just by the words, but by the whole context of situation and the speaker's tone. It is not true to suggest that it always expresses the speaker's irritation; with change of tone of voice and facial expression, the person uttering #4could express irritation, resignation, amusement or a number of other feelings. Here, as is almost always the case in English, it is context and other factors that express feelings, not simply the words. The combination can just as easily be used to express pleasure, as in:


    5. He's always buying me flowers.


    Here's another use of will that is not really a 'future simple':

    6. Our guest speaker can't make it this evening. Don't worry; John will talk about his garden.

    Here, the talking is in the future, but the speaker is mainly indicating John's willingness to talk.
    Wow! thank you very much. Your post made me understand it very well. Can I ask another question , regarding future continuous and no.2 of your example?

    For instance, "John will be talking for hours once he starts." This sentence could be like no. 5 in your list.

    I do not know if the sentence I just gave is grammatically correct.

    I know that future continuous is used when there is an action in progress in the future is being interrupted by another action like : I will be watching TV when she arrives.

    However, in "John will be talking for hours once he starts." , there is no interruption going on.

    How would the two tenses differ?

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