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  1. Offroad's Avatar
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    #1

    shall vs will

    Dear teachers

    Which one of these do you think sounds better?

    The temperature is defined by the process and preferentially shall/will not be higher than 90C.

    Thank you

  2. emsr2d2's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: shall vs will

    I would use "preferably", not "preferentially" with "will". Alternatively, I would delete "prefertially" and use "should", not "shall/will".

    I don't pretend to understand the meaning but, for me, it should read:

    The temperature is defined by the process and, preferably, will not exceed 90 degrees C.
    The temperature is defined by the process and should not exceed 90 degrees C.
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

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    #3

    Re: shall vs will

    If you are writing a specification and the temperature limit is an operational requirement, "shall" is exactly the correct word.

    If you are writing a general description of equipment that has already been built to such an operational requirement, then "will" is correct.

    If you are discussing environmental factors that make the temperature limit desirable, say "should", or "must" if it is an absolute necessity.

    The world "preferential" implies "should" is the best word. But is it really a matter of preference?

  3. emsr2d2's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: shall vs will

    Surely it depends on whether or not the temperature going over that figure will actually be detrimental to something. If it won't, then the temperature ideally/preferably shouldn't go over that temperature.

    If it is of vital importance that the temperature not exceed 90 degrees, then just say "the temperature must not exceed ..."
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

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    #5

    Re: shall vs will

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    Surely it depends on whether or not the temperature going over that figure will actually be detrimental to something. If it won't, then the temperature ideally/preferably shouldn't go over that temperature.

    If it is of vital importance that the temperature not exceed 90 degrees, then just say "the temperature must not exceed ..."
    I agree, and don't call him "Shirley".
    Last edited by Tdol; 18-Oct-2012 at 15:22. Reason: Removing eye roll

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    #6

    Re: shall vs will

    The "don't call him Shirley" comment with eyes-roll is entirely inappropriate, whatever it was intended to convey.

  4. emsr2d2's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: shall vs will

    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    The "don't call him Shirley" comment with eyes-roll is entirely inappropriate, whatever it was intended to convey.
    May I ask if you know the provenance of that phrase, abaka? It might have had nothing to do with the thread itself, but it wasn't "inappropriate" in the way most people think of that word (ie slightly offensive). It certainly made me laugh. I fully expect someone in my actual life or in writing to quote that, every time someone starts a sentence with "Surely" as I did.
    As you said "whatever it was intended to convey", I will assume you don't know the quote so Google "Don't call him Shirley" and watch the first YouTube clip you find of Leslie Nielsen in Airplane.
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

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    #8

    Re: shall vs will

    I know the "provenance" of that phrase very well. Neither Neilsen nor Hays rolled their eyes. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did, but no one called him Shirley.

    More to the point than "Shirley"-- and here I'm entirely serious -- was the eyes-roll.

    I know the master gurus at LearningEnglish.com pride themselves on their disdain for texting English and all that, but let me give you a quick lesson about what the emoticon conveys in the real world -- which nowadays includes internet forums. It conveys exasperation. An inappropriate emotion.
    Last edited by abaka; 18-Oct-2012 at 01:19.

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    #9

    Re: shall vs will

    Of course they didn't roll their eyes. That's the whole point of the humor - they played it entirely straight!

    I think you need to worry less about correcting the interactions between forum members who have known each other a long time and are perfectly comfortable being the subject of some ribbing or the straight man in a comedic zinger.
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

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    #10

    Re: shall vs will

    There is a point about the eyes-roll being used for exasperation. But David Cameron thought lol meant Lots of love. There is also a point about people using emoticons as they see them and not necessarily in the same way as the more standardised real virtual world, as seen in the first reply (not by the original eye-roller) which missed your point and went on about Airplane. I am sure no offence was meant and the eyes were rolling towards the Shirley part, but apologise for any taken. I have removed the offending smiley. I took Billmcd's comment as banter rather than an insult. I am sure that is what he meant. Asynchronous communication with novel forms like emoticons can lead to misunderstanding, but is there really a need to escalate things over this?
    Last edited by Tdol; 18-Oct-2012 at 15:37. Reason: Typo

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