[Grammar] long time no write

[anhnha]

Hi,
I have just seen this phrase in an old thread.
long time no write
Is this phrase grammatical?
long time: adjective
no: adjective or adverb
write: verb
I have a problem in understanding this structure. Could you parse all parts in this phrase?
Thank you.

 

[philo2009]

Hi,
I have just seen this phrase in an old thread.
long time no write
Is this phrase grammatical?
long time: adjective
no: adjective or adverb
write: verb
I have a problem in understanding this structure. Could you parse all parts in this phrase?
Thank you.

No, it is not! The expression 'long time no see' is an invariable nonce construction. It cannot be adapted or changed in any way!

 

[charliedeut]

No, it is not! The expression 'long time no see' is an invariable nonce construction. It cannot be adapted or changed in any way!

I disagree with that. As long the people reading "long time, no read", "long time, no post" or "long time, no (you name it)", understand what I mean (and they are more or less aware of the origin of my expression), I understand everything is OK.

If any/every structure had remained untouchable, no language would have evolved. Change and adaptation are the very basis of our present-day languages!

 

[Chicken Sandwich]

I agree with charliedeut. A search in Google Books shows that "long time no hear" is also used quite a bit. Other variants are also possible.

 

[5jj]

I disagree with that. As long the people reading "long time, no read", "long time, no post" or "long time, no (you name it)", understand what I mean (and they are more or less aware of the origin of my expression), I understand everything is OK.

If any/every structure had remained untouchable, no language would have evolved. Change and adaptation are the very basis of our present-day languages!

Quite. COCA has examples of 'long time no hear/talk/hit/speak'.

 

[philo2009]

Quite. COCA has examples of 'long time no hear/talk/hit/speak'.

None of which, including their structural 'template', is grammatical English by the lights of an educated, careful user. The original is a nonce usage fit only for colloquial contexts, and presumably (one can only guess) based on some kind of distasteful send-up of early Amerindian pidgin English.

The simple fact that these expressions happen to occur on COCA - which, in common with all such corpora, most certainly contains much produced by non-natives, some with a spectacularly poor command of English - does not in any way vouch for their grammaticality!!

EOC

 

[emsr2d2]

I don't know the origins of "long time no see" but whether it came from a distasteful send-up of language or not, it is now an inherent part of BrE. It is very commonly used and frequently adapted. I work part-time in a shop and one of our customers who only comes in infrequently, always walks in and says "Hello. Long time no shop!"

 

[5jj]

None of which, including their structural 'template', is grammatical English by the lights of an educated, careful user.

They don't fit the standard English sentence pattern but, whatever educated (where?) users might think, they are idiomatic in the English of today.

The original is a nonce usage fit only for colloquial contexts

No-one has claimed that they are examples of formal English, and other speakers clearly do not agree that this is a nonce usage

and presumably (one can only guess) based on some kind of distasteful send-up of early Amerindian pidgin English.

Whether or not this was 'a distasteful send-up' (by today's standards) when it was first used, it is now an accepted expression in the language. Quite a few English proverbs, saying and idiomatic expressions use a condensed structure - Nothing ventured, nothing gained; Penny wise, pound foolish; No can do.[/QUOTE]

The simple fact that these expressions happen to occur on COCA - which, in common with all such corpora, most certainly contains much produced by non-natives, some with a spectacularly poor command of English

What evidence have you for this?

- does not in any way vouch for their grammaticality![STRIKE]![/STRIKE]

Careful, educated writers normally use a single exclamation mark.

 

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello,

1. As you know, there is the expression "Long time no see."

a. It is a direct translation of Mandarin Chinese.

b. English speakers may say this in a rather informal, even playful manner instead of "I have not seen you for a long time."

c. In my opinion, it is better not to say it -- especially to Asian people. They might feel that you are trying to mock their

English proficiency.

2. As the other posters have told you, it only seems "natural" that native speakers might make up other combinations, such

as "long time no write."

3. I believe that many books tell us that it is impossible to parse many idioms. But if forced to do so, maybe (a big maybe):

long = adjective.
time = noun
no = the dictionary says that this word can be an adjective or adverb. In this expression, it is apparently being used as an adverb to modify the verb.
write = verb.

(Logically speaking, perhaps the expression should be "Long time not write." BUT expressions are not logical. Maybe "no write"

simply sounds better (and shorter) in English than "not write.")


James

 

[5jj]

c. In my opinion, it is better not to say it -- especially to Asian people. They might feel that you are trying to mock their English proficiency.

It is now natural informal English. If anybody I used it to became offended, I should explain this. If it is our version of the Mandarin, and this has not been proved, it would be an expression taken from another language, not mockery.

 

[TheParser]

It is now natural informal English. If anybody I used it to became offended, I should explain this. If it is our version of the Mandarin, and this has not been proved, it would be an expression taken from another language, not mockery.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


I respect your opinion.

My opinion (and advice) stands: English learners coming to the United States of America should not say "Long time

no see" to Asian people. If they do say it, the social (and even legal) consequences could be rather unpleasant.

 

[5jj]

My opinion (and advice) stands: English learners coming to the United States of America should not say "Long time no see" to Asian people. If they do say it, the social (and even legal) consequences could be rather unpleasant.

I have searched the internet and can find no evidence of anybody suffering any unpleasant consequences as a result of using 'long time, no see' to Asian people. Can you lead me to something I have missed?

 

[Chicken Sandwich]

If they do say it, the social (and even legal) consequences could be rather unpleasant.

Legal consequences? :shock:

 

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


This is in reply to 5jj's and Chicken Sandwich's posts.

These are only my views based on 75 years of living in California.

I may be completely wet (wrong), but -- at least in my mind -- no sane person would ever say "Long time no see"

to an Asian person here in the United States. Ethnic matters (a nice term for "racial matters") are a super, super

sensitive issue in this country. I may be completely wrong, but if you were to walk up to an Asian student at the

university and say "Long time no see," there is the very strong possibiity that s/he would be very offended.

Legal consequences? Well, just try saying that to some Asian colleagues. If you do, do not be astounded if your boss

calls you into the office and fires you. And you could also be sued in court for harassment, etc.

In my opinion only, no sane person in the United States would speak that kind of pidgin English to Asian people.

I believe that I am giving good advice to learners. (And I did preface my remarks with the warning "NOT A TEACHER.")


James

 

[emsr2d2]

I can't speak for what might happen in America, but I can only imagine someone being offended by the phrase if the speaker actually said the words in some kind of Asian/Oriental accent, and/or whilst pulling the outside corners of their eyes in a particular way as if to make themselves appear Oriental. If a BrE speaker said that four word phrase, with no particular inflection and with no attempt to actually do an impression of someone of another ethnic origin, I don't think anyone would have a leg to stand on as far as making any kind of complaint goes.

 

[5jj]

I don't think anyone would have a leg to stand on as far as making any kind of complaint goes.

Especially as it is not regarded as 'Pidgin English' in Britain. As I noted above, it is natural informal English.

 

[Tdol]

OK- this thread may be turning into an echo chamber. There are differences of opinion about the usage of the term. Misunderstandings may arise. On issues of ethnicity, playing safe is not a bad policy. However, over-exaggerating dangers is also not wise. People disagree and agree to differ here. This phrase is in the grey area- use it if you want, but be aware that some may object.