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  1. mohammad
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    #1

    function

    Hi, everybody

    What's the function of the bold part?

    I've a book

    thanks
    Last edited by mohammad; 17-Jan-2006 at 10:45.

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    #2

    Re: function

    Do you mean grammatically? If so, then 'have' is a transitive verb when denoting possession, so it'll be the object.

  2. 1364's Avatar
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    #3

    Question Re: function

    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Do you mean grammatically? If so, then 'have' is a transitive verb when denoting possession, so it'll be the object.
    Hi dear tdol;
    If “Book” is object so we can easily passivize the sentence, but how? It’s impossible!
    What about this definition ;
    Predicator complement<pc>:Is a complement that unlike (direct object or indirect object)can’t fill the grammatical subject(subject of passive sentence)position of a passive sentence,therefor in order to test an element to see whether it is “pc”or not we try to passivize the sentence if the result of this passivization is a grammatical sentence: the element is the ‘DO’ or ’IO’ of active sentence. but if the result is an ungrammatical passive sentence the element is “PC” of the active sentence.
    E.g:
    They have (two children) → Two children are had by them(×)

    All the best

  3. mohammad
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    #4

    Re: function

    Hi

    I do agree with you,1364

    actually, we call these kinds of verbs "non transitive" or recently "middle verbs"

    thanks
    Last edited by mohammad; 18-Jan-2006 at 21:14.

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    #5

    Re: function

    What about this definition:
    have (POSSESS) (had, had) Show phonetics
    verb [T not continuous]
    Cambridge Dictionary

    PS, Who says that passivisation is the only test? There are many sentences in both forms that don't readily convert.
    Last edited by Tdol; 19-Jan-2006 at 08:27.

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    #6

    Question Re: function

    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    What about this definition:
    have (POSSESS) (had, had) Show phonetics
    verb [T not continuous]
    Cambridge Dictionary

    PS, Who says that passivisation is the only test? There are many sentences in both forms that don't readily convert.
    well let me clarify the situation (of course i'm just a novice in case of grammar & each thing i said is just base on some grammar books!
    here is a classification of lexical verbs according to the"ENGLISH SYNTACTIC STRUCTURE by:"FLOR AARTS & JAN AARTS":
    lexical verb:
    (1)complement verbs
    (2)intransitive verbs

    (1)complement verbs:
    a.transitive
    b.non-transitive

    A.the four classes of transitive verbs:
    1.monotransitive verbs(DO only):
    the farmer kicked the horse.
    2.ditransitive verbs(IO+DO):
    he gave her a book.
    3.complex transitive verbs(DO+OC)
    they find him abore.
    *4.transitive "PC" verbs(DO+PC):
    that play reminds me of shakespeare.

    B.non-transitive verbs:
    1.copulas(SA):
    mary fell ill.
    *2.non-transitive "PC" verbs:
    this book belongs to Jane.
    so what do you think about the verb "have" is it "PC" verbs or...

    Warmest regards
    Last edited by 1364; 19-Jan-2006 at 17:54.

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    #7

    Re: function

    Firstly, the grammaticality test - non-occurence is not the same as ungrammaticality and there are other tests.
    Let's try adding some more to it:
    They have a house.
    Passivisation-
    They own a house.
    Passivisation-
    So now, we are to regard these sentences as different because only in the second is there a direct object because the passive form is non-occurent with 'have' when denoting possession? If we apply other tests to see whether it's an object or not- asking questions about whether it affected by the verb, we get identical answers. So here, I think it's swings and roundabouts. Plenty of authorities don't go down the road you are on, and just regard this as a transitive verb- horses for courses.
    Last edited by Tdol; 20-Jan-2006 at 06:40.

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    #8

    Question Re: function

    Hi;
    I’m really mixed up! I search a lot about this matter and surprisingly each time I get a new idea! And also each of them is reasonable, consequently; I think this case is full of vagueness! And I should go further to gain more information .anyway thanks a million for your reply and care.

    Best wishes

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    #9

    Re: function

    There are many areas where there is dispute, so often answers are a matter of opinion and preference. Another example is the word 'up' in the sentence 'They have made up.' Some will say it's a particle, while others will say it's an adverb, so there are conflicting views. On the question of 'have' in the original, I don't see that making a distinction between it and 'owed' is a great improvement, but others do make a distinction. We can't even agree how many tenses there are and what they should be called- I think it's mostly because we like a good argument. Ultimately, when you've read around, go with the view that satisfies you most.
    Last edited by Tdol; 20-Jan-2006 at 14:43.

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