His family (is/are) always fighting among themselves

Status
Not open for further replies.

keannu

VIP Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Korean
Home Country
South Korea
Current Location
South Korea
This kind of colletive noun is followed by a singluar verb or a plural verb depending on which country you are from. I learned from here that Americans usually use a singular verb- is, while the British use a plural one - are. What do you think?

gz80)His family (is/are) always fighting among themselves.
 

SoothingDave

VIP Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
Yes, that is generally true that Americans regard collective nouns as a singular unit. I'm not sure about your example however, cause you are clearly talking about individual members and not the family as one unit. I'd probably use "are" in that case.
 

keannu

VIP Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Korean
Home Country
South Korea
Current Location
South Korea
The answer for the example in my grammar was "are" as it is focused on individual members, treating them as plural. So even for Americans, if a collective noun focuses on individual members, can it use a plural verb?

ex)His family are always fighting among themselves.
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
The answer for the example in my grammar was "are" as it is focused on individual members, treating them as plural. So even for Americans, if a collective noun focuses on individual members, can it use a plural verb?

ex)His family are always fighting among themselves.
That is what SD suggested.
 

SoothingDave

VIP Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
The answer for the example in my grammar was "are" as it is focused on individual members, treating them as plural. So even for Americans, if a collective noun focuses on individual members, can it use a plural verb?

ex)His family are always fighting among themselves.

Yes. The verb must match the subject. Or how one is thinking about the subject. We think of a "team" as one thing. In BrE, they think of a "team" as many players. But if we are clearly thinking of the individuals separately, then we use a plural verb form.
 

keannu

VIP Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Korean
Home Country
South Korea
Current Location
South Korea
What about these two if you are American? Do you think the context clearly tells plural nuance or does it all depend on your judgement?

1.After the three-hour practice under the brutal sun, the
team shower, change into their street clothes, and head to their air-conditioned homes.

2.The jury disagree about the guilt of the accused and have told the judge that they are hopelessly deadlocked.

 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
What about these two if you are American? Do you think the context clearly tells plural nuance or does it all depend on your judgement?

1.After the three-hour practice under the brutal sun, the
team shower, change into their street clothes, and head to their air-conditioned homes.

2.The jury disagree about the guilt of the accused and have told the judge that they are hopelessly deadlocked.

The sentences you have quoted can be found on many sites on the internet. If you have found the sites, you have found the opinions. SD's responses will be valid for most questions on this topic. I would give slightly different responses, but I am a native speaker of BrE.
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
With the first example, the decision is made for you by the use of "themselves" at the end. You couldn't follow "is" with "themselves" and find it natural.

His family is always fighting among themselves.
His family is always fighting among itself.
His family are always fighting among themselves.

I'm sure you'll agree the first two sound very odd.
 

nadd

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
Arabic
Home Country
Morocco
Current Location
Morocco
I would say "His family are always ....." Using "is" in your sentence is a little bit awkward!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

keannu

VIP Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Korean
Home Country
South Korea
Current Location
South Korea

A year ago, I got an opinion from Barb_D like the following, so I concluded in whatever case, Americans prefer singular forms for collective nouns, but now I get a different opinion from Americans, so I think I'd better adjust to variants. What do you think?

===================================================================
Barb_D
In the US, all three of those second set of examples would probably still take the singular verb.

1. After the three-hour practice under the brutal sun, the team shower, change into their street clothes, and head to their air-conditioned homes.
2.After the long exam, the class start their research papers on famous mathematicians.
2.After the long exam, the class start their research papers on famous mathematicians.
3.The jury disagree about the guilt of the accused and have told the judge that they are hopelessly deadlocked.
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
Barb did use the word 'probably'
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top