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    #1

    believe him to have done

    Hi,

    1. People believe the police to have arrested some politicians.

    2. People believe some politicians to have been arrested.

    3. People think the police to have arrested some politicians.

    4. People think some politicians to have been arrested.

    5. I consider the police to have arrested some politicians.

    6. I consider some politicians to have been arrested.

    I know that "that + subject + verb" constructions are much more natural, but wonder whether the sentences above are also grammatical or not.

    Thanks in advance.

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    #2

    Re: believe him to have done

    They are all grammatically correct but unnatural.

  1. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: believe him to have done

    Quote Originally Posted by taked4700 View Post
    Hi,

    1. People believe the police to have arrested some politicians.

    2. People believe some politicians to have been arrested.

    3. People think the police to have arrested some politicians.

    4. People think some politicians to have been arrested.

    5. I consider the police to have arrested some politicians.

    6. I consider some politicians to have been arrested.

    I know that "that + subject + verb" constructions are much more natural, but wonder whether the sentences above are also grammatical or not.

    Thanks in advance.
    They are all unnatural.

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    #4

    Re: believe him to have done

    Thank you, Rover and Bhaisahab.

    How about the sentences below? Are they grammatical?

    1. People believe the police to arrest some politicians.

    2. People believe some politicians to be arrested.

    3. People think the police to arrest some politicians.

    4. People think some politicians to be arrested.

    5. I consider the police to arrest some politicians.

    6. I consider some politicians to be arrested.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: believe him to have done

    Quote Originally Posted by taked4700 View Post
    Thank you, Rover and Bhaisahab.

    How about the sentences below? Are they grammatical?

    1. People believe the police to arrest some politicians.

    2. People believe some politicians to be arrested.

    3. People think the police to arrest some politicians.

    4. People think some politicians to be arrested.

    5. I consider the police to arrest some politicians.

    6. I consider some politicians to be arrested.

    Thanks in advance.
    It doesn't really matter if they are grammatical or not. They are unnatural, nobody would use them.

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    #6

    Re: believe him to have done

    These are natural:

    'The police are believed to have arrested a number of politicians.'

    'I believe some dishonest MPs have been arrested.'

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    #7

    Re: believe him to have done

    Thank you, Bhaisahab and Rover_KE.

    One of my dictionaries says that "I believe him to be honest." is grammatical but "I believe that he is honest." is more natural. So, I guess that " believe+object+to be" construction is grammatical.

    And I understand that you say that "People believe some politicians to be arrested." is ungrammatical.

    I wonder what difference you see between them. The difference would be whether it is passive voice or not?

    Thanks in advance.





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    #8

    Re: believe him to have done

    I think I've understood the logic.

    You believe a thing that has been done or that has existed because things that will happen in the future are not what you believe.

    So, the object of the verb 'believe' must not mean future things. This is the reason that you think "People believe some politicians to be arrested." would be ungrammatical, isn't it?

    Thanks advance.

  3. tzfujimino's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: believe him to have done

    Quote Originally Posted by taked4700 View Post
    ... the object of the verb 'believe' must not mean future things. This is the reason that you think "People believe some politicians to be arrested." would be ungrammatical, isn't it?

    Thanks advance.

    Hello, taked4700.
    Well, I don't think I can agree with you on that point.
    "I believe that the business will be successful." sounds OK to me.

    The construction you are using is often seen in:

    'I believe + Object + (to be) + Adjective/Noun'

    'to be' is optional there. The 'to-infinitive' there is tricky, isn't it?
    I think the reason why those sentences you posted are unnatural(ungrammatical) is that 'to + action verb' is not used
    in the construction.

    I hope I'm not talking nonsense.
    Last edited by tzfujimino; 22-Jun-2013 at 16:17.

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