Assimilation - can´t

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Carolina1983

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Hello, everyone!

I have been reading and, actually, agreeing with the notion of a stop t in "I can´t understand". But I thought of something!
In the phrase "I can´t believe it", one can drop the t and assimilate the n, which would give: I cam believe it. The sound of the a in "cam" is, precisely, the sound of a in "can´t with a so-called stop t (I can´t understand)". So, my question is: there´s no stop t in "I can´t understand", is there?
Thanks!

(I´m insisting on this particular subject because my native teacher insists there´s a stop t in the given situation. But, if there is, how can the same sound be made in "cam"? Which, obsviously, does not have a t?)
 

BobK

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You must be talking about American English, as in BE the vowel's different: can - /kæn/; can't - /ka:nt/

But in any case I don't know what you (or your teacher) mean(s) by 'stop t'. The stop that replaces the /t/ is a glottal stop, and this [ʔ] can replace any stop (not just /t/).

b
 

MikeNewYork

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You must be talking about American English, as in BE the vowel's different: can - /kæn/; can't - /ka:nt/

But in any case I don't know what you (or your teacher) mean(s) by 'stop t'. The stop that replaces the /t/ is a glottal stop, and this [ʔ] can replace any stop (not just /t/).

b

It is amazing to me that any teacher can insist on the pronunciation of words by other people. Not everyone I know in the US pronounces all words the same. And, then as you pointed out, there are other varieties of English. I have heard people insist that "fountain" is pronounced with stop t, but I pronounce it with a clear t.
 

Carolina1983

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You must be talking about American English, as in BE the vowel's different: can - /kæn/; can't - /ka:nt/

But in any case I don't know what you (or your teacher) mean(s) by 'stop t'. The stop that replaces the /t/ is a glottal stop, and this [ʔ] can replace any stop (not just /t/).

b


Hello again! Well, what she says is that, even before a vowel sound, there will be a t left in words that end with nt (went, can´t, don´t, blatant). She says the proof this t occurs is the raising of the soft palate, given that nasals are produced with the soft palate down. But, then again, I´ve read that there´s no such thing and that the proof of it is the assimilation I mentioned. By the way, am I right in saying it´s possible: I "cam" believe it? I copied it from this example: I don´t believe it - I don believe it - I dom believe it. By the way, my teacher´s American, from NYC.

Thanks!
 

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It seems to me dangerous to talk about about a vague thing like 'a little bit of t left' and not talk about the anatomical realities involved. There is a stop; it is a glottal stop (occurring in the glottis); but there is no dental stop 'left'. The idea of something being 'left' is a romantic oversimplification.

I'd better not say any more; I don't think this is going anywhere useful. :oops: ;-)

b

PS In my original response I was being theoretical when I said 'The glottal stop can replace any stop'. In practice, it repolaces /t/ more than any other,
 

5jj

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I agree with what Bob has said.

I don't think we can get anywhere unless we can find out what your teacher means by stop t, an expression that I, with a little knowledge of phonetics, have not met, though apparently Mike has. As Bob said, "The idea of something being 'left' is a romantic oversimplification".

It would be useful in future posts if we used phonetic/phonemic transcription for words being discussed.
 

konungursvia

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It's a question of decay, the accoustics (physics) concept.... how fast the end of the word 'stops.'
Can decays gradually, like a song slowly going away, whereas can't decays suddenly, like a twig breaking.
 

Carolina1983

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I agree with what Bob has said.

I don't think we can get anywhere unless we can find out what your teacher means by stop t, an expression that I, with a little knowledge of phonetics, have not met, though apparently Mike has. As Bob said, "The idea of something being 'left' is a romantic oversimplification".

It would be useful in future posts if we used phonetic/phonemic transcription for words being discussed.


She says you position the tongue for the t sound, but don´t release it. She uses [t/].
 

konungursvia

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The effect of which is to end the syllable suddenly.
 

Carolina1983

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The effect of which is to end the syllable suddenly.

Right. So how can we get the same effect thru assimilation? I can´t (t/) believe - I "cam" believe?
 

konungursvia

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There is a very slight stop of all air in the mouth, throat, and nose, comparable to a glottal stop but not located in the same place, when we produce a North American clipped T sound. In effect, it is an air stop that mimics the decay of the British final /t/ and represents it by analogy. There is a fairly simple set of examples here: Perfect English Pronunciation
 
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