"Who are you talking to?"

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Pierce111

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Recently I have encountered a rule saying that when the anser for the question is "him", "them", "us" then the qestion should start with "whom" (instead of "who").
But above question doesn't stick to this rule. Is it a some exception or the my rule is wrong?
 

bhaisahab

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Recently I have encountered a rule saying that when the anser for the question is "him", "them", "us" then the qestion should start with "whom" (instead of "who").
But above question doesn't stick to this rule. Is it a some exception or the my rule is wrong?

Your rule is not wrong, it's just that hardly anyone uses "whom" in modern English.
 

MikeNewYork

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Recently I have encountered a rule saying that when the anser for the question is "him", "them", "us" then the qestion should start with "whom" (instead of "who").
But above question doesn't stick to this rule. Is it a some exception or the my rule is wrong?

In formal English (at least in AmE), "whom" is used whenever the pronoun is the object of a verb or preposition. In less formal English, some people still follow that rule, but many use "whom" only when the word directly follows a preposition. In your sentence, the preposition is separated from "who/whom" and appears at the end of the sentence.
 

charliedeut

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In formal English (at least in AmE), "whom" is used whenever the pronoun is the object of a verb or preposition. In less formal English, some people still follow that rule, but many use "whom" only when the word directly follows a preposition.

As in "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Both Hemingway's novel and Metallica's song!) :cool:
 

euncu

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Hello,

When a native-speaker hears someone saying "To whom are you talking?" , what would they think of the speaker? I mean, would they think about the speaker as outdated, pompous or just as a good user of the English Language?

Thanks for your answers in advance
 

Raymott

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Hello,

When a native-speaker hears someone saying "To whom are you talking?" , what would they think of the speaker? I mean, would they think about the speaker as outdated, pompous or just as a good user of the English Language?

Thanks for your answers in advance
If it was spoken with a foreign accent, I'd assume that the speaker was hypercorrecting, and was not familiar with colloquial English. Otherwise, I'd need some context to tell why they are speaking that way. There are other reasons: mock-pompous, attempted humour, clarification...
 

euncu

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If it was spoken with a foreign accent, I'd assume that the speaker was hypercorrecting, and was not familiar with colloquial English. Otherwise, I'd need some context to tell why they are speaking that way. There are other reasons: mock-pompous, attempted humour, clarification...

But it's okay in writing I assume, isn't it? Or is it still bit of odd to use that even in writing?
 

Raymott

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But it's okay in writing I assume, isn't it? Or is it still bit of odd to use that even in writing?
I'm trying to think of why you'd write "To whom are you talking?" If it's dialogue, then all the considerations for speaking are relevant.
 

euncu

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I'm trying to think of why you'd write "To whom are you talking?" If it's dialogue, then all the considerations for speaking are relevant.

I'm just asking because as far as I know this would be the most prescriptive way of saying or writing it, and some who are proponent of the prescriptive approach to the language would still expect that the sentence should be worded that way.

Apart from what I mentioned above I believe, which doesn't mean I'm right, in formal correspondences, it is the proper way one should write.
 

Chicken Sandwich

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Apart from what I mentioned above I believe, which doesn't mean I'm right, in formal correspondences, it is the proper way one should write.

I don't think so. "To whom are you talking" isn't any more proper than "Whom are you talking to?" It's entirely acceptable to end a sentence with a preposition.
 

Raymott

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I don't think so. "To whom are you talking" isn't any more proper than "Whom are you talking to?" It's entirely acceptable to end a sentence with a preposition.
I don't think that the preposition was ever the problem. It's the who/whom distinction that euncu talking about, I believe.
But since you've brought up "Whom are you talking to?", I'd call that bizarre, while "To whom are you talking" is just unusual (and all those other descriptions above).

The correct way of expressing in formal writing something that only occurs in speech obviously depends on the context in which you'd want to do that.
 

euncu

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... "To whom are you talking" is just unusual (and all those other descriptions above).

Hello Raymott,

From what I understand from your words, "To whom are you talking?" is virtually obsolete and in speech or in writing the only way that the sentence can be worded is "Who are you talking to?. Is my interpretation of what you have said on this thread so far correct?
 

FreeToyInside

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Hello Raymott,

From what I understand from your words, "To whom are you talking?" is virtually obsolete and in speech or in writing the only way that the sentence can be worded is "Who are you talking to?. Is my interpretation of what you have said on this thread so far correct?

I would agree that "to whom are you talking?" is obsolete, or at least extremely outdated. "Whom are you talking to?" sounds more usual, only because Americans tend to always put prepositions at the end of sentences. I don't think it necessarily sounds unusual to say "whom", just that the speaker speaks very proper English (which may or may not be unusual depending on who(m) you ask). But by and large, modern speakers tend to say "who are you talking to?"

As a side note, I've been noticing more and more people lately trying to sound smart or proper and incorrectly use "whom" by saying something like "whom was at the door?" which drives me insane. It's the same as when they say "John went with she and I to the movies," because they learned that their natural tendency to say "me and her went with John to the movies" was incorrect. So annoying!

(not a teacher, just a language lover)
 

Raymott

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Hello Raymott,

From what I understand from your words, "To whom are you talking?" is virtually obsolete and in speech or in writing the only way that the sentence can be worded is "Who are you talking to?. Is my interpretation of what you have said on this thread so far correct?
Yes, it's virtually obsolete. But I did not say that this was the only way to say it. You can say "To whom are you talking?" if you have a reason to. We've agreed that the 'whom' version can be pompous, mock-pompous, or for attempted humour, or clarification, to mention a few.
But I can't think of any place where "Who are you talking to?" would be wrong.
The point is, why not just use what people say? - "Who are you talking to?"
 
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