Results 1 to 9 of 9
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Mongolian
      • Home Country:
      • Mongolia
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Aug 2013
    • Posts: 15
    #1

    N of N constructions

    Even though, I know the most uses of articles (the, a), N of N constructions make it harder for me to understand. Sometimes I am not sure whether I have to write N of N constructions with the article or without it. For example, the success of construction projects or success of construction projects. Here, I am referring to the general meaning of success. Another example can be the qualitative measurements of projects or qualitative measurements of projects. (again general meaning).


    In my opinion, most of the time, N of N constructions have the articles.Could anyone give me some suggestions.


    Thank you very much for your help.

  1. Raymott's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 24,092
    #2

    Re: N of N constructions

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfection1 View Post
    Even though, I know the most uses of articles (the, a), N of N constructions make it harder for me to understand. Sometimes I am not sure whether I have to write N of N constructions with the article or without it. For example, the success of construction projects or success of construction projects. Here, I am referring to the general meaning of success. Another example can be the qualitative measurements of projects or qualitative measurements of projects. (again general meaning).


    In my opinion, most of the time, N of N constructions have the articles.Could anyone give me some suggestions.


    Thank you very much for your help.
    What do you by "N of N"? "N" usually designates "number". "Five of five mice died"
    If you're using them as general variables (such as X and Y, which is more common, or A and B perhaps), you can't use the same variable for two different things.
    If you mean N = "the success" and M = "construction projects", then "N of M" makes sense. But "the success of the success" doesn't.
    In any case, I think you mean two separate and different variables. Whether you need an article, and what article you need, would depend upon the sentence.
    Would you like to write a few sentences (full sentences) using these constructions, and we'll comment on them. As phrases, they can take an article if you give them one.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Mongolian
      • Home Country:
      • Mongolia
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Aug 2013
    • Posts: 15
    #3

    Re: N of N constructions

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    What do you by "N of N"? "N" usually designates "number". "Five of five mice died"
    If you're using them as general variables (such as X and Y, which is more common, or A and B perhaps), you can't use the same variable for two different things.
    If you mean N = "the success" and M = "construction projects", then "N of M" makes sense. But "the success of the success" doesn't.
    In any case, I think you mean two separate and different variables. Whether you need an article, and what article you need, would depend upon the sentence.
    Would you like to write a few sentences (full sentences) using these constructions, and we'll comment on them. As phrases, they can take an article if you give them one.
    What I mean is Noun of Noun. Those two nouns are not the same.

    For example, the success of construction projects is usually measured against cost and budget. The qualitative measurements of projects have begun to be used recently.

  2. Raymott's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 24,092
    #4

    Re: N of N constructions

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfection1 View Post
    What I mean is Noun of Noun. Those two nouns are not the same.
    "Noun" of "Noun" is certainly clearer. "Noun1 of Noun2" would be even better.
    However, my offer remains. Write a few sentences and we can comment. There are no rules about articles in phrases. There is no possible way of telling whether "success of projects" or "the success of the projects" is the correct phrase for a non-existent sentence.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Mongolian
      • Home Country:
      • Mongolia
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Aug 2013
    • Posts: 15
    #5

    Re: N of N constructions

    the success of construction projects is usually measured against cost and budget. The qualitative measurements of projects have begun to be used recently.

  3. Raymott's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 24,092
    #6

    Re: N of N constructions

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfection1 View Post
    1. The success of construction projects is usually measured against cost and budget.
    2. The qualitative measurements of projects have begun to be used recently.
    Sentence 1 is a correct sentence. It talks about construction projects in general. If you were talking about specific construction projects that you've already identified (eg. the ones our company is working on), you use "the construction projects".
    In the 2, firstly, if certain specific qualitative measurements are being discussed, you'd use "the"; but I think it would be more likely that you mean that you've just begun to use qualitative measurements (unspecified), in which case, the zero article is used (no article).
    Secondly, in 2, if you're talking about projects in general, the sentence is right. If the projects are known and have been referred to (ie. you know which specific projects you're talking about), then it should be "the projects".

    You should be able to work out some rules from these examples.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Apr 2009
    • Posts: 12,310
    #7

    Re: N of N constructions

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfection1 View Post
    the success of construction projects is usually measured against cost and budget. The qualitative measurements of projects have begun to be used recently.
    Just "qualitative measurements" in your example. If you continue writing about them, the next time you mention them you can use "the," because it is now definite what qualitative measurements you are talking about.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Mongolian
      • Home Country:
      • Mongolia
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Aug 2013
    • Posts: 15
    #8

    Re: N of N constructions

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    Sentence 1 is a correct sentence. It talks about construction projects in general. If you were talking about specific construction projects that you've already identified (eg. the ones our company is working on), you use "the construction projects".
    In the 2, firstly, if certain specific qualitative measurements are being discussed, you'd use "the"; but I think it would be more likely that you mean that you've just begun to use qualitative measurements (unspecified), in which case, the zero article is used (no article).
    Secondly, in 2, if you're talking about projects in general, the sentence is right. If the projects are known and have been referred to (ie. you know which specific projects you're talking about), then it should be "the projects".

    You should be able to work out some rules from these examples.

    I totally agree with you. Could you please correct my understanding.. Here I am referring to SUCCESS.

    Success of construction projects is usually measured against cost and budget. (this sentence will be used in the following situation: I am discussing it for the first time and the meaning is in general)

    The success of construction projects is usually measured against cost and budget (this sentence will be used in the following situation: maybe I discussed it and there might be a very specific meaning of success)

    Could you please direct me on that...


    Thanks

  4. Raymott's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 24,092
    #9

    Re: N of N constructions

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfection1 View Post
    I totally agree with you. Could you please correct my understanding.. Here I am referring to SUCCESS.

    Success of construction projects is usually measured against cost and budget. (this sentence will be used in the following situation: I am discussing it for the first time and the meaning is in general)

    The success of construction projects is usually measured against cost and budget (this sentence will be used in the following situation: maybe I discussed it and there might be a very specific meaning of success)

    Could you please direct me on that...

    Thanks
    They are both acceptable, and it seems you understand the concept. Sometimes, it doesn't matter exactly how you phrase it.
    You could even say, "The success of a construction project ..." This means any (an indefinite) construction project.

Similar Threads

  1. Passive constructions
    By Miss I in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-Jan-2013, 15:13
  2. Adverbial constructions
    By Jennifer Nevsky in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22-Jan-2011, 19:10
  3. [Grammar] there is/are constructions
    By nekoneko in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-Nov-2010, 16:11
  4. [Grammar] Tense Constructions
    By Shaza1690 in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 14-May-2010, 14:18
  5. Two constructions
    By nyggus in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-Jun-2006, 19:55

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •