Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. nyota's Avatar
    Senior Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2009
    • Posts: 615
    #1

    'Same or otherwise', phrasing in a contract.

    "This order is not binding upon you until accepted at your Head Office and written notice thereof signed by a Director, Secretary or Sales Manager is communicated to me by posting same or otherwise but my offer to you will remain open..."


    I noticed there's no 'the' in front of 'same'. Is 'same or otherwise' a fixed phrase? What does it mean?

  2. probus's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Jan 2011
    • Posts: 3,458
    #2
    As you quoted it, the passage seems rather frightening; it appears to be legalese but is unintelligible. It might help if you provided the rest of the context. Then we might be able to determine whether or not its threat is real.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Jun 2010
    • Posts: 24,462
    #3

    Re: 'Same or otherwise', phrasing in a contract.

    'Same or otherwise' is not a fixed phrase.

    'Same' is often correctly used without 'the'.

    'Please sign the application form and return same in the envelope provided.'

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Bengali; Bangla
      • Home Country:
      • Bangladesh
      • Current Location:
      • Singapore

    • Join Date: Jul 2013
    • Posts: 495
    #4

    Re: 'Same or otherwise', phrasing in a contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover_KE View Post
    'Same or otherwise' is not a fixed phrase.

    'Same' is often correctly used without 'the'.

    'Please sign the application form and return same in the envelope provided.'

    I don't know if I am correct. I have checked "Same" in my dictionary and I couldn't fine any context of "Same" with out "The". It says "Same" usually comes after "The".

  3. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #5

    Re: 'Same or otherwise', phrasing in a contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by UM Chakma View Post
    I have checked "Same" in my dictionary and I couldn't fine any context of "Same" with out "The". It says "Same" usually comes after "The".
    And Rover told you, "'Same' is often correctly used without 'the'."

    Try a different dictionary.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Jun 2010
    • Posts: 24,462
    #6

    Re: 'Same or otherwise', phrasing in a contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by UM Chakma View Post
    I don't know if I am correct. I have checked "Same" in my dictionary and I couldn't fine any context of "Same" with out "The". It says "Same" usually comes after "The".
    Note the word 'usually'.

  4. nyota's Avatar
    Senior Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2009
    • Posts: 615
    #7

    Re: 'Same or otherwise', phrasing in a contract.

    The excerpt is from a vehicle sale contract.

    "This order is not binding upon you until accepted at your Head Office and written notice thereof signed by a Director, Secretary or Sales Manager is communicated to me by posting same or otherwise but my offer to you will remain open until accepted by you or expressly withdrawn by me by notice in writing to you, whichever first shall happen. An acceptance shall be deemed to be communicated to me upon the same being posted in an envelope addressed to me at my address stated on the face thereof.

    Delivery to be at your premises, [address of the dealership], or at your option, before the date of delivery shown on the face hereof."
    Do I even understand who 'you' and 'me' refer to correctly? This order is not binding to them [the company] until accepted at their Head Office. The acceptance comes in a written form signed by a Director or other people mentioned and then is posted to me 'same or otherwise'?

    How about that for context?

    Thanks for all the answers so far.


  5. probus's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Jan 2011
    • Posts: 3,458
    #8
    I can say with certainty that the potential buyer has made an incredibly broad offer, at least by modern North American standards. The offer will remain open until accepted or specifically withdrawn. In other words, the car dealer can convert the offer into a binding contract at any time of his choosing, unless the buyer has previously withdrawn it. Where I live no rational person would make such an offer.

    Nevertheless the phrase you ask about remains difficult and troublesome in a legal document. Only two theories occur to me.

    1) The car dealing firm hopes that "same or otherwise" will give it the right to substitute a different but similar vehicle and still have a binding contract. This is very unlikely to hold water in a modern commercial context.

    2) The phrase "same or otherwise" may have an established meaning in Australian case law.

    Otherwise it is unintelligible to me.
    Last edited by probus; 06-Sep-2013 at 05:43.

  6. nyota's Avatar
    Senior Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2009
    • Posts: 615
    #9

    Re: 'Same or otherwise', phrasing in a contract.

    Thanks probus for your time and effort.

Similar Threads

  1. [Grammar] Help with this phrasing...
    By Juwahoo in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 15-Jun-2013, 03:17
  2. Need help with this phrasing
    By scofansnags in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 19-Mar-2011, 12:19
  3. [General] best phrasing
    By uchitelka in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-Dec-2010, 11:17
  4. correct phrasing
    By dweeks@scppool.com in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-Nov-2009, 19:43
  5. Phrasing
    By paochai01 in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 14-Aug-2008, 01:54

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •