Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. Newbie
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Singapore
      • Current Location:
      • Singapore

    • Join Date: Oct 2013
    • Posts: 2
    #1

    Question Subject in the Jussive Subjunctive

    "Please, Mary, let the boy come again."

    Which is the subject of this sentence? Mary or the boy?

    Thanks!

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Apr 2009
    • Posts: 12,307
    #2

    Re: Subject in the Jussive Subjunctive

    It's "you." An unspoken, understood "you" which is the subject of the verb "let."

  2. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #3

    Re: Subject in the Jussive Subjunctive

    Welcome to the forum, sakuramin.

    I consider that we have an imperative form there, not a jussive subjunctive. Let (= allow ... to) is in the imperative mode. The subject of imperatives is generally held to be an understood 'you'.

  3. Barb_D's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Mar 2007
    • Posts: 19,215
    #4

    Re: Subject in the Jussive Subjunctive

    But since "Mary" is the person being addressed, is it the case that Mary is the logical subject, but the grammatical subject remains the "implied you"?
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

  4. engee30's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Apr 2006
    • Posts: 2,969
    #5

    Re: Subject in the Jussive Subjunctive

    Quote Originally Posted by Barb_D View Post
    But since "Mary" is the person being addressed, is it the case that Mary is the logical subject, but the grammatical subject remains the "implied you"?
    To me, Barb_D, Mary is a vocative, and the covert subject is still you. What's more, if the grammatical subject is you, the notional one is the boy, as it would be him to do the coming (here, the boy is in the objective case though).

  5. MikeNewYork's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 24,983
    #6

    Re: Subject in the Jussive Subjunctive

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    To me, Barb_D, Mary is a vocative, and the covert subject is still you. What's more, if the grammatical subject is you, the notional one is the boy, as it would be him to do the coming (here, the boy is in the objective case though).
    The sentence's verb is "let". "Boy" cannot be the subject of that verb. "Come" is a bare infinitive, and at least in traditional grammar, it cannot take a subject.

  6. Barb_D's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Mar 2007
    • Posts: 19,215
    #7

    Re: Subject in the Jussive Subjunctive

    I can't hear "vocative" without picturing the Monty Python scene when John Cleese is painting graffiti on the walls and the Roman solider corrects his (Latin) grammar.

    Romani...

    That makes sense, though. Mary is vocative and the implied subject remains "you."
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

  7. MikeNewYork's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 24,983
    #8

    Re: Subject in the Jussive Subjunctive

    Quote Originally Posted by Barb_D View Post
    I can't hear "vocative" without picturing the Monty Python scene when John Cleese is painting graffiti on the walls and the Roman solider corrects his (Latin) grammar.

    Romani...

    That makes sense, though. Mary is vocative and the implied subject remains "you."
    But it is also true, that "Mary" defines "you".

  8. Newbie
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Singapore
      • Current Location:
      • Singapore

    • Join Date: Oct 2013
    • Posts: 2
    #9

    Re: Subject in the Jussive Subjunctive

    Thank you, all for helping me with this. I'm actually studying Hebrew, where "let-come" occurs as a single word (single verb) in the jussive subjunctive mood. I know this is the wrong forum for Hebrew questions, but I thought I should figure out the sentence in English before I try understanding it in Hebrew. What you've said about the implied "you" was exactly what I thought it should be, but I also thought it was awkward that the subject doesn't actually "appear" in the sentence. But I guess it isn't! Thanks again!

  9. MikeNewYork's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 24,983
    #10

    Re: Subject in the Jussive Subjunctive

    Quote Originally Posted by sakuramin View Post
    Thank you, all for helping me with this. I'm actually studying Hebrew, where "let-come" occurs as a single word (single verb) in the jussive subjunctive mood. I know this is the wrong forum for Hebrew questions, but I thought I should figure out the sentence in English before I try understanding it in Hebrew. What you've said about the implied "you" was exactly what I thought it should be, but I also thought it was awkward that the subject doesn't actually "appear" in the sentence. But I guess it isn't! Thanks again!
    In the imperative mod in English, an "implied you" is the normal subject.

    Go to bed!
    Leave here immediately!
    Take the briefcase!

Similar Threads

  1. [Grammar] subjunctive
    By Will17 in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 25-Feb-2013, 09:49
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-Jun-2012, 18:48
  3. [Grammar] Imperfect subjunctive vs past subjunctive
    By SwordAngel in forum General Language Discussions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 25-Apr-2009, 02:01
  4. Subjunctive...
    By Jelena in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-May-2007, 16:14

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •