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    #1

    The plane is flying above/over the clouds

    1. The plane is flying above the clouds.
    2. The plane is flying over the clouds.
    3. The sun rose above the horizon.
    4. The sun rose over the horizon.

    Are above and over interchangeable in the above sentences?

    Thanks.

  1. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: The plane is flying above/over the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by Winwin2011 View Post
    1. The plane is flying above the clouds.
    2. The plane is flying over the clouds.
    3. The sun rose above the horizon.
    4. The sun rose over the horizon.

    Are above and over interchangeable in the above sentences?

    Thanks.
    No, they are not.

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    #3

    Re: The plane is flying above/over the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    No, they are not.
    Are the following sentences correct?

    1. The plane is flying above the clouds.
    3. The sun rose above the horizon.

    Does 'over' mean movement from one location or position to another? Does 'above' mean location not movement?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Winwin2011; 19-Oct-2013 at 04:22.

  2. Raymott's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: The plane is flying above/over the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by Winwin2011 View Post
    Are the following sentences correct?

    1. The plane is flying above the clouds.
    3. The sun rose above the horizon.

    Does 'over' mean movement from one location or position to another? Does 'above' mean location not movement?

    Thanks.
    We use 'over' and 'above' differently, though it's not easy to explain the difference. Often either will do.
    No, location or movement is not the difference, since you can move over or above something, and you can be located above or over something.

    The site below mentions location or movement as one factor with the adverb, but here we are dealing with the preposition.
    Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

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    #5

    Re: The plane is flying above/over the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    We use 'over' and 'above' differently, though it's not easy to explain the difference. Often either will do.
    No, location or movement is not the difference, since you can move over or above something, and you can be located above or over something.

    The site below mentions location or movement as one factor with the adverb, but here we are dealing with the preposition.
    Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary
    I was wondering which of the following sentences are correct. Do the following sentences mean movement?

    1. The plane is flying above the clouds.
    2. The plane is flying over the clouds.
    3. The sun rose above the horizon.
    4. The sun rose over the horizon.

    From Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary, the editor explained the difference as follows:

    In its most common senses, the adverb over implies movement from one location or position to another:
    The senses of the adverb above that function similarly imply only location, not movement:

    I am confused with the difference. Could anybody help,please?

    Thanks.

  3. Raymott's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: The plane is flying above/over the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by Winwin2011 View Post
    I was wondering which of the following sentences are correct. Do the following sentences mean movement?

    1. The plane is flying above the clouds.
    2. The plane is flying over the clouds.
    3. The sun rose above the horizon.
    4. The sun rose over the horizon.

    Yes, they all imply movement, because of the verbs.
    "The plane flew over the mountain" - movement. "The picture hangs over the fireplace" - location, but nothing to do with the preposition.
    (But I already said that above).


    From Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary, the editor explained the difference as follows:

    In its most common senses, the adverb over implies movement from one location or position to another:
    The senses of the adverb above that function similarly imply only location, not movement:
    Yes, but your sentences don't use those words as adverbs.

    I am confused with the difference. Could anybody help,please?

    Thanks.
    I'm not sure what difference you're referring to. If you want specific help, you need to be more specific about what you're asking. Are you confused about the difference between the uses depending on whether they are adverbs or prepositions (answered on the page I gave you); whether there is a difference based on movement and location (answered above, and on the website), or some other difference? If you are confused in general, I have explained above that "it's not easy to explain the difference".
    There are many other web sites apart from that one. I'd suggest you study a few more. Search for "over above".

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    #7

    Re: The plane is flying above/over the clouds

    Thanks Raymott

    My confusion is as follows:-

    I read the following sentences from a book:

    1. The plane is flying above the clouds.
    2. The sun rose above the horizon.

    Are the above sentences using "above" correct?

    To google the difference between "over" and "above", Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary explained the difference as follows:

    In its most common senses, the adverb over implies movement from one location or position to another:
    The senses of the adverb above that function similarly imply only location, not movement:

    Therefore, I asked whether "above and over" are interchangeable in the above sentences in post 1. Bhai repied "No, they are not."

    To clarify the difference, I found "Plane flying over the clouds" and "Do aircraft fly above the clouds? " in goggle.

    You said "you can move over or above something, and you can be located above or over something". Does it mean that we can use "over or above" to refer to movement.

    My main point: Can we use "over or above" to refer to movement. However,from Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary, the editor said "The senses of the adverb above that function similarly imply only location, not movement".

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Winwin2011; 19-Oct-2013 at 12:30.

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    #8

    Re: The plane is flying above/over the clouds

    Quote Originally Posted by Winwin2011 View Post
    Thanks Raymott

    My confusion is as follows:-

    I read the following sentences from a book:

    1. The plane is flying above the clouds.
    2. The sun rose above the horizon.

    Are the above sentences using "above" correct? Yes.

    To google the difference between "over" and "above", Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary explained the difference as follows:

    In its most common senses, the adverb over implies movement from one location or position to another:
    The senses of the adverb above that function similarly imply only location, not movement:
    This is irrelevant, as I've said twice now. Your sentences don't use 'above' as an adverb. They use 'above' as a preposition. This is made clear on the site I gave you. I suggest you read my replies and that page carefully again, noting that an adverb is not a preposition, and that any comments made about your sentences using 'above' as an adverb don't necessarily apply to 'above' as a preposition.

    Therefore, I asked whether "above and over" are interchangeable in the above sentences in post 1. Bhai repied "No, they are not." I agree.


    To clarify the difference, I found "Plane flying over the clouds" and "Do aircraft fly above the clouds? " in goggle.
    So, the difference you are referring to is the difference between 'above' and 'over' when used as a preposition after a verb of motion?



    You said "you can move over or above something, and you can be located above or over something". Does it mean that we can use "over or above" to refer to movement.
    It means that if you use either of these terms with a verb of movement, then movement is implied. Same with location. See my example above.

    My main point: Can we use "over or above" to refer to movement. However,from Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary, the editor said "The senses of the adverb above that function similarly imply only location, not movement".
    True, but if you want to discuss their uses as an adverb, you should probably start a new thread, since all your examples use these words as prepositions, and you're confused enough already.
    Thanks.
    Regarding the use of 'over' and 'above' as prepositions used with verbs of motion, eg. in the following:
    "A plane is flying over the clouds" and "Do aircraft fly above the clouds? - (your examples, modified to make the first a sentence):
    Both of these are correct. 'Over' tends to mean that the plane in moving from one side of the clouds to the other. 'Above' tends to mean that while the plane is flying, the clouds are below the plane. But these are only tendencies to meaning. If we change the sentences only slightly to make them compare the points in question:
    "A plane flew over the channel; A plane flew above the channel" Here, 'over' definitely tends (still) to mean that the plane started on one side of the channel and ended up on the other side. 'Above' does not have this connotation.

    They do not always mean this; they sometimes do. The fact that they can both be used in the same position, sometimes with the same meaning, does not mean they are interchangeable.

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