THAT or WHICH

[Freeguy]

Phones that have cameras are generally more expensive. ( Why we cannot use which instead of that here ? )

 

[5jj]

(Why [STRIKE]we cannot[/STRIKE] can't we use which instead of that here ? )

We can.

 

[Freeguy]

This site thinks otherwise. Please look at its quiz.

Grammatically Speaking

 

[emsr2d2]

Many quizzes and textbook questions are built to suggest that only one answer is correct. Frequently, having given the "correct" answer, they then provide three other choices without considering whether or not any of those could also be correct. We find lots of poor test questions.

 

[Tdol]

It's a very easy mistake to make when writing tests- I've done it. ;-)

However, choosing which as an incorrect answer is odd.

 

[5jj]

It's a very easy mistake to make when writing tests- I've done it. ;-).

We probably all have.

 

[MikeNewYork]

This site thinks otherwise. Please look at its quiz.

Grammatically Speaking

This controversy has been around a long time, at least in AmE. We are taught that "that" should be used for restrictive relative clauses and that "which" should be used for nonrestrictive relative clauses. That has led to a rule about not using "that" in nonrestrictive clause and not using "which" in restrictive clauses. But that part of the rule is a stretch. That said, many users of AmE have been taught this rule.

See the usage note here: that - definition of that by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[Freeguy]

Still, I have trouble recognizing the best one between THAT and WHICH. It's another question.

The studies about the relation between playing and stimulating the creativity in children in the pre-school age shows that "stimulating the creativity in children ...... to the amount of playing results in what is called innovative thought in a child; because body movement in pre-school ages is the first step of activity, diction, learning, and progress.

1. is directly proportional
2. which is directly proportional
3. that is directly proportional
4. directly proportional to which

( Why not No.3 here? I'm discombobulated by this differences )

 

[5jj]

#3 is possible.

Incidentally, the verb should be 'show', not 'shows'.

 

[Freeguy]

But the answer key claims it must be 2. I lean against both 2 and 3. That's why I've asked you what's difference between them. I sought my sources over and over. I found nothing

 

[Walt Whitman]

#3 is possible.

Incidentally, the verb should be 'show', not 'shows'.

5jj, why not 1?
I think that the sentence is quite long and (maybe) a bit awkward, though.
WW

 

[MikeNewYork]

Still, I have trouble recognizing the best one between THAT and WHICH. It's another question.

The studies about the relation between playing and stimulating the creativity in children in the pre-school age shows that "stimulating the creativity in children ...... to the amount of playing results in what is called innovative thought in a child; because body movement in pre-school ages is the first step of activity, diction, learning, and progress.

1. is directly proportional
2. which is directly proportional
3. that is directly proportional
4. directly proportional to which

( Why not No.3 here? I'm discombobulated by this differences )

This is another long, complicated sentence that is not well written. As 5jj posted, the verb "shows" should be "show" to agree with "studies".
If I am reading the sentence correctly, the only phrase I would use to fill the blank is #2, and that phrase needs to be set off by commas because it is nonrestrictive. There is an opening quotation mark before "stimulating", but there is no closing quotation mark. Also, I see no reason for the definite article before "creativity". The final clause is a subordinate clause and should not be set off by a semicolon. I also cannot figure out how that clause connects to the phrase "innovative thought". I would probably rephrase that clause and make it a separate sentence.

The studies about the relation between playing and stimulating creativity in pre-school children show that stimulating creativity in children, which is directly proportional to the amount of playing, results in what is called innovative thought in a child.

(because body movement in pre-school ages is the first step of activity, diction, learning, and progress.)

 

[MikeNewYork]

5jj, why not 1?
I think that the sentence is quite long and (maybe) a bit awkward, though.
WW

I would not use #1 because it adds a second verb (along with "results") for the subject "stimulating". For that to work, one would have to add the word "and" between "playing" and "results".

 

[Freeguy]

I agree with you that if it was nonrestrictive and if we have comma then only WHICH can work here. However, we don't have comma as you mentioned and I've reached an impasse about the accuracy of No.3 in this case.

 

[Freeguy]

This is another long, complicated sentence that is not well written. As 5jj posted, the verb "shows" should be "show" to agree with "studies".
If I am reading the sentence correctly, the only phrase I would use to fill the blank is #2, and that phrase needs to be set off by commas because it is nonrestrictive. There is an opening quotation mark before "stimulating", but there is no closing quotation mark. Also, I see no reason for the definite article before "creativity". The final clause is a subordinate clause and should not be set off by a semicolon. I also cannot figure out how that clause connects to the phrase "innovative thought". I would probably rephrase that clause and make it a separate sentence.

The studies about the relation between playing and stimulating creativity in pre-school children show that stimulating creativity in children, which is directly proportional to the amount of playing, results in what is called innovative thought in a child.

(because body movement in pre-school ages is the first step of activity, diction, learning, and progress.)

I agree with you that if it was nonrestrictive and if we have comma then only WHICH can work here. However, we don't have comma as you mentioned and I've reached an impasse about the accuracy of No.3 in this case

 

[MikeNewYork]

I agree with you that if it was nonrestrictive and if we have comma then only WHICH can work here. However, we don't have comma as you mentioned and I've reached an impasse about the accuracy of No.3 in this case.

The point is that it needs commas. I didn't write the sentence; I am trying to fix it. ;-)

There are other errors in the sentence.

 

[Walt Whitman]

The studies about the relation between playing and stimulating the creativity in children in pre-school age (subject) show (verb) that stimulating the creativity in children (subject) is (verb) directly proportional to the amount of playing results [I would parse this as a noun] in what is called innovative thought in a child.

However, I really don’t know whether the sentence would make sense:?:.
WW

 

[MikeNewYork]

The studies about the relation between playing and stimulating the creativity in children in pre-school age (subject) show (verb) that stimulating the creativity in children (subject) is (verb) directly proportional to the amount of playing results [I would parse this as a noun] in what is called innovative thought in a child.

However, I really don’t know whether the sentence would make sense:?:.
WW

Using "results" as a noun doesn't make any sense. I believe that it is a verb there.

 

[emsr2d2]

Using "results" as a noun doesn't male any sense. I believe that it is a verb there.

I agree. "It results in [what is called] innovative thought in a child".