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    #1

    none of which or them

    Males defend their territory, which they use to live, chiefly against other males of same species. In some cases, a warning call or threatening pose may be all the defense needed, but the cases in which a special situation occurs, intruders may refuse to leave peacefully and this behavior always results in wildly fights between two males, none of ...... would give up easily.

    1. them
    2. which
    3. that
    4. who

    What's wrong with THEM here? I cannot distinguish between none of them and none of which.

  1. 5jj's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: none of which or them

    If you used 'none of them ...', you'd need a semi-colon or full stop before those words.

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    #3

    Re: none of which or them

    Does it hold true for all the cases that we use none of THEM ? I mean whenever we use this one we should employ ; or . ? right?
    So, what would be the nuanced difference between none of WHICH and none of THEM ?

  2. 5jj's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: none of which or them

    1. ... this behavior always results in wildly fights between two males, none of which would give up easily.
    2. ... this behavior always results in wildly fights between two males; none of them would give up easily.
    3. Three animals fought, and none of them would yield.

    In #2, a comma after 'males' would lead to a run-on sentence.
    In #3, a comma (or no punctuation) is fine.

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    #5

    Re: none of which or them

    Quote Originally Posted by Freeguy View Post
    ... and this behavior always results in wildly fights between two males, none of ...... would give up easily.
    I find the last part of the piece very unnatural. For a start, it should be "wild fights" (not "wildly") and I would use "neither" rather than "none" because it refers to "two males".

    ... and this behaviour always results in wild fights between two males, neither of which would give up easily.

    There is a slight connection to another recent thread here because I am also tempted to say "... neither of whom would give up easily".
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

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    #6

    Re: none of which or them

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    I find the last part of the piece very unnatural. For a start, it should be "wild fights" (not "wildly") and I would use "neither" rather than "none" because it refers to "two males".

    ... and this behaviour always results in wild fights between two males, neither of which would give up easily.

    There is a slight connection to another recent thread here because I am also tempted to say "... neither of whom would give up easily".
    I don't like the beginning or the middle much either.

    "Males defend their territory, which they use to live, chiefly against other males of same species."

    The relative clause doesn't work for me. An animal doesn't "use to live their territory". And, it is obvious that they live in their territory.

    It would be better as: "Males defend their territory chiefly against other males of the same species".
    At the very least, if the relative clause is considered necessary, it should be "in which they live".

    In the middle, there is "but the cases in which a special situation occurs, intruders may refuse to leave peacefully"

    In this clause, "the cases in which a special situation occurs" just sits there, unconnected to the rest of the clause. It leaves two subjects for the verb "may refuse".

    It would be better as: "but in cases in which a special situation occurs,". But it would be even better to rephrase the entire sentence.

    I sincerely hope this was not an exam question.

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    #7

    Re: none of which or them

    You're right, I skim-read the rest of the sentence and concentrated on the end but actually the whole thing is a mess.
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

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    #8

    Re: none of which or them

    "none of whom would give up easily" Sounds perfect to me. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    You're right, I skim-read the rest of the sentence and concentrated on the end but actually the whole thing is a mess.
    I noticed that aswell, but was reluctant to point it out since their question was for the 'right word in a sentence' rather than the paragraph overall. :P

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    #9

    Re: none of which or them

    So I concluded that we don't use this structure : Three animals fought, and none of WHICH would yield. Ok

    Another question : Is there any point about using a proper tense after none of which or none of them? I mean is there any difference between the time used after these two phrases? Past, present or what?

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    #10

    Re: none of which or them

    Quote Originally Posted by Freeguy View Post
    So I concluded that we don't use this structure : Three animals fought, and none of WHICH would yield. Ok

    We certainly don't use it with the "and" that you have put after the comma. The most natural way to say that is:
    - Three animals fought - none of them would yield.

    - Three animals fought; none of them would yield.
    - Three animals fought and none of them would yield.
    - Three animals fought, none of whom would yield.


    Another question : Is there any point about using a proper tense after none of which or none of them? I mean is there any difference between the time used after these two phrases? Past, present or what?

    Please see my response above in red to the first past of your post. I'm afraid I'm not sure I understand the second part. Can you give an example of some sentences using the different tenses and we can see whether or not they are natural?
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

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