At-Has etc. reduced forms!

[Carolina1983]

Hello!

Question: Words like at and has have reduced forms, where the schwa is the vowel sound. However, I´ve heard people say these words with the same vowel sound as "ten". So my question is: does this mean I heard it correct? That, in such context, the vowel sound as in bat will reduce to the schwa or the vowel sound in "ten"? For instance, how do you say: "She says she has to go"?

Thanks!

 

[5jj]

There are some varieties of English in which the vowel in such words as 'at' and 'has' may be pronounced /e/. However. I don't think that in such varierties /e/ is the unstressed form.

 

[Carolina1983]

Hello 5jj, that´s what I thought at first, but the context is clearly for the unstressed variety. For example, he was at the door. What do you think, do you think ppl may reduce it until /e/ instead of going all the way to the schwa?

Thanks!

 

[Raymott]

Hello 5jj, that´s what I thought at first, but the context is clearly for the unstressed variety. For example, he was at the door. What do you think, do you think people may reduce it until /e/ instead of going all the way to the schwa?

Thanks!

/e/ is not "on the way from /æ/ to schwa". Schwa is in the middle of the vowel diagram. Whether it's further from /æ/ than /e/, I'm not sure. I don't know of any major dialect that uses /e/ for /æ/, but we all certainly use schwa in "at" when it's not stressed.

 

[Carolina1983]

Hi Raymott, yes, I get it. What confuses me is that I constantly hear people use the /e/ vowel sound where a schwa would be the first choice, since the word is unstressed (or would be according to context and the melody itself of the language). Thanks anywho!

 

[5jj]

Hi Raymott, yes, I get it. What confuses me is that I constantly hear people use the /e/ vowel sound where a schwa would be the first choice, since the word is unstressed (or would be according to context and the melody itself of the language). Thanks anywho!

Are you sure they are native speakers?

 

[Carolina1983]

Are you sure they are native speakers?

I am! lol I hear it mostly on sitcoms, all the time. Like: "She´s at the door (et)" or She says she has to leave (hez)". How do you pronounce at and has in these sentences 5jj? Thanks!

 

[5jj]

I'd pronounce at as /ət/ and has to as /hæstə/. Note the /s/ in /hæstə/

 

[Raymott]

Hi Raymott, yes, I get it. What confuses me is that I constantly hear people use the /e/ vowel sound where a schwa would be the first choice, since the word is unstressed (or would be according to context and the melody itself of the language). Thanks anywho!

Well, since no native speaker has confessed to saying [e] or [ɛ] for /æ/ here, and since a few of us are denying it happens with any frequency, I guess it might be your idiosyncratic interpretation. But that's possible, since [e] doesn't occur naturally in English - it's usually [ɛ]. So we natives might not interpret what you hear as an [e].
The following indicates that NZE uses [ɛ] for /æ/, but [e] doesn't occur (except apparently by us Aussies, for /e/ as 5jj points out below):
International Phonetic Alphabet chart for English dialects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If it's as prevalent as you think, maybe you could post a soundfile or YouTube video in which you consider that this [ɛ], ie. the sound in 'ten' occurs?

Editings in blue, following 5jj's post below.

 

[5jj]

But that's possible, since /e/ doesn't occur naturally in English - it's usually [ɛ].

I think you mean that [e] (Cardinal Vowel 3) does not occur naturally in English.

The vowel that most Britsh writers transcribe phonemicaly as /e/ most certainly does occur. (Most American writers transcribe this sound phonemically as/ɛ/.) In modern standard southern BrE, this vowel is closer to [ɛ] than to[e], though a variant fairly close to [e] still occurs in the RP of some older speakers; this version can sound affected to younger speakers. In Australian English, the vowel is closer to [e].

Note that I am not talking about the vowel in unstressed words, which is almost universally /ə/

 

[Raymott]

I think you mean that [e] (Cardinal Vowel 3) does not occur naturally in English.

Yes, sorry, I mean that the phonetic [e] doesn't exist in English. I'll fix it. The phonemic /e/ does, of course, and is usually pronounced as [ɛ].
I'm claiming that neither [e] nor [ɛ] are used for /æ/ in English, to the extent that the OP thinks is common, unless she has been listening almost exclusively to NZE.

In Australian English, the vowel is closer to [e]

Maybe. I'm not convinced that I say [e] for /e/ (or something closer to [e] than [ɛ]) at all! The vowel in 'bed' is [ɛ]. And speakers of Spanish and Italian who have heard my attempts at their language do not accept my normal Australian /e/ for their [e], which they should if I say [e] - but perhaps not necessarily if it's only "something closer to [e] than [ɛ] ".
But I take it that we agree on [æ].

 

[5jj]

But I take it that we agree on [æ].

I agree with everything you have written - except for the typo.

 

[Carolina1983]

Well, since no native speaker has confessed to saying [e] or [ɛ] for /æ/ here, and since a few of us are denying it happens with any frequency, I guess it might be your idiosyncratic interpretation. But that's possible, since [e] doesn't occur naturally in English - it's usually [ɛ]. So we natives might not interpret what you hear as an [e].
The following indicates that NZE uses [ɛ] for /æ/, but [e] doesn't occur (except apparently by us Aussies, for /e/ as 5jj points out below):
International Phonetic Alphabet chart for English dialects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If it's as prevalent as you think, maybe you could post a soundfile or YouTube video in which you consider that this [ɛ], ie. the sound in 'ten' occurs?

Editings in blue, following 5jj's post below.

Hi there raymott!
i think it actually might be my interpretation, but it might also be a slight variation from the vowel sound we have in cat, meaning, not as long as cat, but not as short as "ten" either. Im going to try and do some careful listening exercises on that. Oh geez. Thats what happens when u dont have a boyfriend! Lol thanks