[Grammar] Are there objects in this sentence?

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leslieking

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The student is putting her notebook on the desk.


is "her notebook" a direct object and "the desk" an indirect object? Or we can only talk about nouns here (notebook and desk) ?
 

SoothingDave

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"Notebook" is the direct object. There is no indirect object.

"On the desk" is a prepositional phrase. "Desk" is the object of the preposition "on."

The prepositional phrase acts as an adverb modifying the verb "is putting."
 

konungursvia

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I agree mostly, but think of the desk as a reasonably indirect object, as on is a preposition like to.

Compare: He is giving his book to the teacher.
 

leslieking

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Thank you! Your time is greatly appreciated.
This may sound silly but when we identify the object "notebook" do we need to take the possesive adjective into consideration?

In other words, is the noun "notebook" the direct object? Or "her notebook" together is the direct object? When we identify do we need to take only the noun into consideration?
 

5jj

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I agree mostly, but think of the desk as a reasonably indirect object, as on is a preposition like to.

Compare: He is giving his book to the teacher.
There is no indirect object in that sentence, either. There's just another prepositional phrase. The fact that the meaning of that sentence is identical to 'He is giving the teacher a book' is not relevant to the structure of the sentence.
 

konungursvia

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Thanks for that 5jj, I guess I am thinking in French. Why you wouldn't call 'teacher' an object, in addition to being part of a prepositional phrase, escapes me though.
 

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Thanks for that 5jj, I guess I am thinking in French. Why you wouldn't call 'teacher' an object, in addition to being part of a prepositional phrase, escapes me though.

For me, it is because an indirect object is not a prepositional phrase. In that sentence, "to the teacher" acts as an adverb modifying the verb. Indirect objects are not modifiers. Lumping the two together just confuses people.
 

leslieking

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I read that indirect objects are usually people. But this is not always true, right? Here is another one:

I'm bringing fish home from the store.

Is "home" the indirect object, right? and "fish" the direct object?
 

MikeNewYork

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I read that indirect objects are usually people. But this is not always true, right? Here is another one:

I'm bringing fish home from the store.

Is "home" the indirect object, right? and "fish" the direct object?

No. "Fish" is the direct object. Home is an adverb. It tells you where the fish are being brought.
 

konungursvia

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I was curious so I looked at various grammars, and some are categorical about the distinction, while others assert exactly what I thought by analogy with French -- that indirect objects are often found within prepositional phrases. Perhaps it's a matter of debatable viewpoints.

Subjects and objects in English - article | Onestopenglish

The Indirect Object

In any case it is clear that indirect objects undergo some effect due to the verb and its object, so we are in general agreement here.
 

5jj

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I was curious so I looked at various grammars, and some are categorical about the distinction, while others assert exactly what I thought by analogy with French -- that indirect objects are often found within prepositional phrases. Perhaps it's a matter of debatable viewpoints.
I have just checked in a few leading grammars.The following all agree that the prepositional phrase is not an indirect object:

Carter, Ronald & McCarthy, Michael (2006) Cambridge Grammar of English, Cambridge: CUP
Huddleston, Rodney & Pullum, Geoffrey K (2002) The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, Cambridge: CUP
Jespersen, Otto (1909-1949), A Modern English Grammar on Historical Principles, Copenhagen: Levin & Munksgaard, and London: George Allen & Unwin

Quirk, Randolph, Greenbaum, Sidney, Leech, Geoffrey and Svartik, Jan (1985) A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language, London: Longman

The only grammar I could find that considered the prepositional phrase to be an indirect object was :

Sinclair, John (Editor-in-Chief), (1990) Collins Cobuild English Usage, London: HarperCollins

Although I have not located any others in favour of the prepositional phrase as indirect object, the following say there is some disagreement among grammarians about this:


Alleron, D J in Aarts, Bas and McMahon, April (2006) The Handbook of English Linguistics, Oxford: Blackwell
Chalker, Sylvia in in McArthur, Tom (1992) The Oxford Companion to the English Language, Oxford: OUP
 

MikeNewYork

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I was curious so I looked at various grammars, and some are categorical about the distinction, while others assert exactly what I thought by analogy with French -- that indirect objects are often found within prepositional phrases. Perhaps it's a matter of debatable viewpoints.

Subjects and objects in English - article | Onestopenglish


The Indirect Object

In any case it is clear that indirect objects undergo some effect due to the verb and its object, so we are in general agreement here.

There are some who agree with you and many who do not.
 

leslieking

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For me, it is because an indirect object is not a prepositional phrase. In that sentence, "to the teacher" acts as an adverb modifying the verb. Indirect objects are not modifiers. Lumping the two together just confuses people.

In these two sentences we have both direct and indirect objects. Right?:

1. The girl is bringing her parents breakfast.
her parents = indirect object
breakfast = direct object

2. The woman is bringing the man a newspaper.
the man = indirect object
newspaper = direct object
 

konungursvia

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Thanks gentlemen.... some of these debates matter very little, as they are different methods of classification, a mere taxonomy.

In this case I don't mind going against the grain: in the same way it's difficult to imagine a natural language with subject-persons that differ greatly from the first, second and third persons we use (except some differences in plurals such as two, two or more, two including the speaker, two excluding the speaker), I find it is hard to imagine any noun in a sentence that does not fall neatly into the role of the subject, object, or indirect object.

That said, I can imagine nouns so deeply buried in phrases that they could hardly be considered to be even indirect objects "e.g. They were up in arms..." and so one might prefer to say "up in arms" contains no objects, but is merely an adjectival phrase of some variety.

But in the case of nouns within prepositional phrases, which are acting concretely as the victim or recipient of the actual verb, I can't agree they are "not objects at all" since they are logically implied in the action of the verb in some concrete relationship with both subject and direct object. In fact, they are merely corollaries of wordings everyone accepts as examples of indirect objects. Just wanted our learner(s) to see an alternate point of view.
 

5jj

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In these two sentences we have both direct and indirect objects. Right?:

1. The girl is bringing her parents breakfast.
her parents = indirect object
breakfast = direct object

2. The woman is bringing the man a newspaper.
the man = indirect object
newspaper = direct object
Yes
 
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