Are the 5 basic sentence patterns sacred?

[Tdol]

That's what they mean to me. ;-)

 

[Casiopea]

V =verb
S = subject
O = object
C = complement
DO = direct object
IO = indirect object

Do I have all those right, grammar mavens?

:wink:

Yup.

C has two functions: SC (a subject complement) after linking verbs et al (i.e. SVC), and OC (an object complement) after objects (i.e. SVOC).

 

[Tdol]

Is that a driect or indirect OC? ;-))))

 

[RonBee]

V =verb
S = subject
O = object
C = complement
DO = direct object
IO = indirect object

Do I have all those right, grammar mavens?

:wink:

Yup.

C has two functions: SC (a subject complement) after linking verbs et al (i.e. SVC), and OC (an object complement) after objects (i.e. SVOC).

Thanks, Cas.

 

[jwschang]

I think that we can look at it as a shortened adjective phrase with both the heading preposition "in" and (say) the noun "condition" abandoned, leaving only the modifier "brand new" from the adjective phrase "in a brand-new condition". As an adjective phrase, it's position is not abnormal, in "I sold him my car in a brand new condition". So, SVC? :wink:

That's an interesting analysis.

It'd be SVC is V were a linking verb et al, like this:

My car is brand new. (SVC)

Let's look at an SVOC structure:

They named (V) the baby(O) George (C). (SVOC)

'named' takes an object and that object requires a complement. In fact, if we switch the order of the object and the complement the result is ungrammatical:

*They named (V) George (C) the baby (O).

In short, with SVOC structures the O and the C cannot be switched. On the other hand, with SVOO structures the DO and the IO can be switched:

I sold (V) him (IO) the car (DO) brand new. (SVOO+Adjunct)

I sold (V) it (DO) to him (IO) brand new. (SVOO+Adjunct)

Note, 'brand new' is added information; information not required by the verb to express its basic meaning. The same holds true for 'in a brand new condition', as well as other information that's not stated inside the verb's subcategorization frame:

sold [something, to someone]; [someone, something]

You're right. So, it's SVO, with the "brand-new" as a modifier of O.

 

[jwschang]

Is 'brand' an adverb as it modifies 'new'? ;-)

Interesting Q.
Looks like it is: like, brand new = very new = like new. If not hypenated:
1. brand new = adverb + adjective (although brand is a noun)
2. very new = adverb + adjective
3. like new = adverb + adjective (although like is a preposition too)
4. slow-burn (cooker) = adjective + infinitive
5. high-octane (fuel) = adjective + noun

Language is too complicated to be sacred! Trouble is, a lot of things are sacred only because they are complicated. Don't understand, don't ask, it's sacred. :lol:

 

[Tdol]

That's what I thought. ;-)

 

[jwschang]

That's what I thought. ;-)

That's enigmatic of you! Thought about the adverb or sacredness, or both? :lol:

 

[Tdol]

Both ;-))

 

[James]

So if it's just written SVOC, we wouldn't know whether the C complements S or O. Thus there are actually two forms: SVO(OC) and SVO(SC), right? However, by your explanation, isn't this sentence more like a reduction from "It struck me as it is an excellent plan"? So it's actually a subordinate clause type.

No, "as" is a preposition in that sentence and is used in the normal fashion.

Perhaps it should be, "It struck me as an excellent plan." I don't think you need the "it is" part. The "It" is a problem in this sentence as the "as an excellent plan" part is clearly a complement of "it" rather than of the object, "me". It is different from the "He makes me sick"-type of pattern as I am the one who is sickened by him. "I was struck by how it is an excellent plan.... hmmm.... I 'm confused.

 

[RonBee]

"It struck me as an excellent plan" certainly seems to better sentence to me. The other two words seem to be superfluous.



[Edited for spelling. Thanks, Tdol.]

 

[Tdol]

Have a 't' on me. ;-)

 

[Casiopea]

Is 'brand' an adverb as it modifies 'new'? ;-)

Interesting Q.
Looks like it is: like, brand new = very new = like new. If not hypenated:
1. brand new = adverb + adjective (although brand is a noun)
2. very new = adverb + adjective
3. like new = adverb + adjective (although like is a preposition too)
4. slow-burn (cooker) = adjective + infinitive
5. high-octane (fuel) = adjective + noun

Language is too complicated to be sacred! Trouble is, a lot of things are sacred only because they are complicated. Don't understand, don't ask, it's sacred. :lol:

new brand (adj + noun)
brand new (noun + adjective)
really brand new (adv + adj + adj)

I think 'brand' is a noun functioning as an adjective. Whaddya thunk?

It's a new brand.

 

[Casiopea]

"It struck me as it is an excellent plan"

Perhaps it should be, "It struck me as an excellent plan." I don't think you need the "it is" part. The "It" is a problem in this sentence as the "as an excellent plan" part is clearly a complement of "it" rather than of the object, "me". It is different from the "He makes me sick"-type of pattern as I am the one who is sickened by him. "I was struck by how it is an excellent plan.... hmmm.... I 'm confused.

I agree. Replace the 'it is' with (being):

It struck me as (being) an excellent plan. SVOC

 

[Casiopea]

Have a 't' on me. ;-)

What? Y'gonna hoard the 'h' and the 'e'?

 

[infinikyte]

I hope everyone here is good and healthy. I just recovered from a two-week flu, it was horrible, I was so sick I didn't bother to go online!!

The word 'exhausted' has an inflectional -ed suffix. Words are not listed in the dictionary with inflections. Take off the -ed and you'll find the word 'exhaust'. If we add -ed to it we get a past participle in form. In our example sentence:

She left the room exhausted.

'exhuasted' describes her state of being. How she left. (Adverb)
'exhausted' is an adverb.
'exhuasted functions as an adverb.
Sentence Pattern: SVO+Adv

Sorry but I have to ask again: is "exhausted" really an adverb? Is it used like "surprised" in "I'm surprised."? But then "surprised" here would be an adjective? Because if

'exhuasted' describes her state of being.

then we can say "She is exhausted", right?

*Sorry. Did I say SVOC originally? Sorry.

None taken. You WERE right from the very beginning.

 

[James]

Take the sentence "She is upstairs." Here, I will disagree with my colleague, Cas. Many will say that a linking verb cannot take an adverb. This is generally true, but forms of the verb "to be" are not always linking verbs. This verb can also be an intransitive stative verb, when it takes on the meaning "to exist". In my opinion, "upstairs" is an adverb, modifying the verb "is". It simply answers the question "where?" as do many adverbs. She exists upstairs.

1. intransitive (linking) verb: SV+Adv

She is upstairs = She situates herself upstairs. adverb

Nice

Thanks! :lol:

If we can say that the sentence, "The police found him dead", is a SVOC (Subject Verb Object Adjectival complement). And if we want to say that the sentence, "He is upstairs", is a SVC (Subject Linking-Verb Adverbial complement), then we should be able to say that the sentence, "The police found him upstairs", is a SVOC (Subject Verb Object Adverbial complement). Or how about, "The police found him dead upstairs"?

 

[Casiopea]

If we can say that the sentence, "The police found him dead", is a SVOC (Subject Verb Object Adjectival complement). And if we want to say that the sentence, "He is upstairs", is a SVC (Subject Linking-Verb Adverbial complement), then we should be able to say that the sentence, "The police found him upstairs", is a SVOC (Subject Verb Object Adverbial complement). Or how about, "The police found him dead upstairs"?

Welcome :hi:

The police found him (dead) upstairs. SVOC+adverb
He was dead. SVC
He was upstairs. SV+adjunct

Note, linking verbs do not have adverbial complements; they have adverbial adjuncts. The difference between a complement and an adjunct is that complements are part of the verb, whereas adjuncts are not. They function as added information.

He was upstairs = He exists. He exists upstairs. It's the existing and not he that happens upstairs.

 

[landekai]

Well, learnt a lot from you guy...Thank you...

 

[claude]

Well, learnt a lot from you guy...Thank you...

no problem, piggy knuckle, you are welcome. :wink: