[Grammar] 【long since】 【that】

Status
Not open for further replies.

dodonaomik

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
Whoeve begins at this point, like my readers, to reflect and pursue his train of thought will not soon come to the end of it____reason enough for me to come to an end, assuming it has long since been abundantly clear what my aim is, what the aim of that dangerous slogan is that is inscribed at the head of my last book. __________ <<Beyond Good and Evil>>


:?:long since: I can not understand long since. Does long since mean "long time since"?
that: I feel very puzzled. Is that only a pronoun?(as the following: That is a plum tree I planted.)
Or does that refer to " that dangerous slogan "?



Sincere thanks!
 

probus

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
"Long since" is not used in mainstream English. It belongs to Indian English. In that dialect it means "a long time ago."
 

Roman55

Key Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Italy
Current Location
France
I am not a teacher.

I find "long since" perfectly normal, if a little old fashioned, and I certainly don't speak Indian English.
 

Roman55

Key Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Italy
Current Location
France
I am not a teacher.

You may indeed.
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
"Long since" is used regularly in BrE.

- What happened to that cake shop that used to be next to the bank?
- Oh, that's long since gone.
 

SoothingDave

VIP Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
"Long since" is used regularly in BrE.

- What happened to that cake shop that used to be next to the bank?
- Oh, that's long since gone.

Same in AmE.
 

Raymott

VIP Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
English
Home Country
Australia
Current Location
Australia
Nevertheless, I think the meaning here is "long since a specific stated time", ie. since the dangerous slogan was published in his last book.
The use of "long since" without a reference time in the past sounds a little odd to me. I'm not convinced that there is no past time implicit in the 'cake shop' example. It could mean "since the time we are reflecting about".
 

Roman55

Key Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Italy
Current Location
France
I am not a teacher.

I don't think of long since as meaning since. I see it more as meaning "ago" although they aren't directly interchangeable. That would make the reference time now, not a point in the past.
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
"That's long since gone" = "It's a long time since that went" (for me). So for me, the reference time in the past is the day the shop closed down.
 

Roman55

Key Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Italy
Current Location
France
I am not a teacher.

This example taken from oxforddictionaries.com,

"Practice has long since taken its leave of policy, and speaks to it about once a year, on a bad line."

can be rewritten, "Practice took its leave of policy a long time ago, and speaks..."
 

dodonaomik

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
"Long since" is used regularly in BrE.

- What happened to that cake shop that used to be next to the bank?
- Oh, that's long since gone.

Does the part marked pink mean "Oh, that was long since gone"?

If so(In my eye, 's=was ), I feel it's very good that the reference time is now as Roman said.

Is there one reason to prove the Roman's opinion wrong?

I feel there's no such reason.
 

dodonaomik

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
"That's long since gone" = "It's a long time since that went" (for me). So for me, the reference time in the past is the day the shop closed down.

Yes, I agree with you, but at the same time I think Roman's opinion is right too.
In fact, are you both right? I think you are both right.
 

dodonaomik

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
The perfect tense is often used in connection with "since", so I think it should be "has".

Not a teacher.

If your opinion is right, I can't understand emsr2d2's opinion________"So for me, the reference time in the past is the day the shop closed down."




If my opinion's right, I think that not only emsr2d2's but also Roman's
opinion is right. In other words, I can understand both emsr2d2's
and
Roman's opinion. ("Oh, that was long since gone"... ... that=a period of time, in my eye)

 

Matthew Wai

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Member Type
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
- What happened to that cake shop that used to be next to the bank?
- Oh, that's long since gone.
That=that cake shop that used to be next to the bank, in my eyes.
That cake shop has long since gone.

Not a teacher.
 

Raymott

VIP Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
English
Home Country
Australia
Current Location
Australia
I've changed my opinion since my first post. "Long since" doesn't need a reference point if it means "a long time ago". Roman and emsr2d2 are both right. "A long time ago" obviously has 'now' as a reference point. But I'd say that "long since" is idiomatic. "Since" is unusual in this construction because it doesn't have a reference point in the past (except for "a long time ago").
 

dodonaomik

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
That=that cake shop that used to be next to the bank, in my eyes.
That cake shop has long since gone.

Not a teacher.

That cake shop has long=The cake shop hasn't existed for a long time?


Otherwise how to understand the oblique part?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top