[Grammar] Confused with Ing clauses and Possessives precede gerunds

[behxrad]

HI
sorry for any problem with my English but i have a really big problem with understanding usage between ing clauses and possessives preceding gerunds. I've searched a lot but couldn't find anything that relieve me :-(

For example

"I can't take our car without my sister knowing"

I am really confused!!!

If "knowing" is gerund, i know that i have to use possessives like "my sister's knowing". if it's participle the sentence is OK.

So i can not understand when it's gerund or participle

Some more examples i'm confused with

"They objected to the youngest girl being given the command position"

"They objected to the youngest girl's being given the command position"


"Police investigating the crime are looking for evidences"

"Police's investigating the crime are looking for evidences"


Does participle give extra information that gerund doesn't ????

and finally if i used one of them i'm not certain about, would that be okay?!

 

[MikeNewYork]

In most cases the two constructions are parallel. In one you have a possessive + gerund, because a gerund is a noun. In the other you have an noun or objective pronoun + participle, because a participle is a modifier. This applies to your first two sets of examples.

Your third set is different. In the first sentence of the third set, "looking" is a present participle that is part of a progressive/continuous verb. "Investigating" is a participle modifying the noun "police". The second sentence in the third sentence is incorrect.

 

[SoothingDave]

Police's investigating the crime are looking for evidences

If this is your sentence, what is the subject?

 

[behxrad]

If this is your sentence, what is the subject?

Oh sorry i just wanted to have an example

could you please add an example and explain that for me?!

 

[SoothingDave]

I was merely pointing out that "Police's investigating the crime are looking for evidences" can't possibly be correct. Because "police" is the subject of the sentence.

(Also note that "evidence" is not countable. Police look for "evidence," not "evidences.")

 

[behxrad]

so the second set of examples is correct?!

Could i use either of those or anything like them ??? possessive + gerund or noun/pronoun + participle ??!

 

[MikeNewYork]

Yes. They have the same meaning.

 

[Raymott]

Could i use either of those or anything like them

Sometimes you can use either form. At other times, one form is preferred, or even obligatory.
I'd say that in most cases you can use something like them - but I'm only guessing about the meaning of the second half of your sentence.

"I don't like him singing."; "I don't like his singing." Are these the same? Usually not.
"I like his singing, but I don't like him singing when I'm trying to sleep."

Unfortunately, there are no simply solutions. If I were a learner, I'd probably use the pronoun + participle form by default unless I was sure that I meant the possessive. This would give you three correct sentences for your original examples (bearing in mind the corrections already given).

 

[emsr2d2]

so the second set of examples is correct?!

Could i use either of those or anything like them ??? possessive + gerund or noun/pronoun + participle ??!

Please follow the rules of written English:

- Start every sentence with a capital letter.
- End every sentence with a single, appropriate punctuation mark.
- Always capitalise the word "I".
- Do not put a space before a full stop, comma, question mark or exclamation mark.
- Always put a space after a full stop, comma, question mark or exclamation mark.

I have underlined and marked in red each error.