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    #1

    about the position of modifiers

    This is a simple question but it makes me confused.
    I searched and found some Q&As but I couldn't find a proper answer.

    1-1. Look at the falling leaves from the tree.
    1-2. Look at the leaves falling from the tree.
    1-3. Look at the leaves that are falling from the tree.

    2-1. Look at the fallen leaves on the ground.
    2-2. Look at the leaves fallen on the ground.
    2-3. Look at the leaves that [have / are] fallen on the ground.

    I think 1-2 and 1-3 are grammatically correct. 1-1 is a possible sentence but somewhat awkward.
    On the other hand, I think both 2-1 and 2-2 are grammatically correct. I can't explain but I think so.
    When it comes to 2-3, I think 'have' is correct. 'fall' is a intransitive verb. So it can't be used in a passive sentence.
    However, if we think of 'fallen' as an adjective, can 'are' be used in the sentence?

    I feel sorry for too many questions.
    And thanks in advance.

  1. tzfujimino's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: about the position of modifiers

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudo View Post
    This is a simple question but it makes me confused.
    I searched and found some Q&As but I couldn't find a proper answer.

    1-1. Look at the falling leaves from the tree.
    1-2. Look at the leaves falling from the tree.
    1-3. Look at the leaves that are falling from the tree.

    2-1. Look at the fallen leaves on the ground.
    2-2. Look at the leaves fallen on the ground.
    2-3. Look at the leaves that [have / are] fallen on the ground.

    I think 1-2 and 1-3 are grammatically correct. I agree with you. 1-1 is a possible sentence but somewhat awkward. I don't think 1-1 would work.
    On the other hand, I think both 2-1 and 2-2 are grammatically correct. I agree with you that 2-1 is grammatical. However, 2-2 isn't grammatical, in my opinion.
    When it comes to 2-3, I think 'have' is correct. 'fall' is a intransitive verb. So it can't be used in a passive sentence. I agree with you.
    However, if we think of 'fallen' as an adjective, can 'are' be used in the sentence? When it is used as an adjective, it's placed before a noun. For your reference: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...itish/fallen_1

    I feel sorry for too many questions.
    And thanks in advance.
    Hello, pseudo.
    My comments are above in blue.
    I'm also interested in your query. Let's wait for other members to reply.

  2. Matthew Wai's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: about the position of modifiers

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudo View Post
    2-2. Look at the leaves fallen on the ground.
    It should be correct if 'fallen' is replaced with 'shed'.

    Not a teacher.

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    #4

    Re: about the position of modifiers

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudo View Post
    Look at the leaves that are fallen on the ground.

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Hello, Pseudo:

    I know that you come here to learn modern English, so I think that you have received an excellent answer from Tzfujimino.

    *****

    I just thought that you might be interested in something that you might occasionally encounter in reading elegant English.

    My books tell me that in older English (and even today in poetic English) "be" was often used instead of "have" to express what we call today the present perfect.

    Here is a quotation that I found in the "books" section of Google. I think that it is very beautiful, don't you? (I have emphasized some words in boldface.)

    "No power in the world can restore time that is fled, leaves that are fallen and snows that are melted."



    James

    Credit: That quotation was cited in The Unbroken Web: Stories and Fables by Adams, Gilbert, and Campbell.

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    #5

    Re: about the position of modifiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Wai View Post
    It should be correct if 'fallen' is replaced with 'shed'.
    Shed wouldn't work for me. The original might with to the ground, but 2-1 above would be more natural.

  3. Matthew Wai's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: about the position of modifiers

    As 'look at the leaves shed on the ground' wouldn't work, would 'the tree sheds leaves on the ground' not work either?

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