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    #1

    without the fact being known... What does it mean?

    1-1. This is a story written by him.
    1-2. This is a story being written by him.

    I think past participles mean the passive and something that has been finished.
    I think 1-1 means a story that has been written by him.
    However, 1-2 can mean the passive and the progressive.
    So I think 1-2 means a story that is being written by him.

    2. Presumably four million seals could not compete with commercial fishermen for the same species without the fact being known.

    I happened to meet this sentence and I would like to ask about the phrase 'without the fact being known'.
    Does it have to be 'without the fact known', or 'without the known fact'?
    'know' is a stative, so it can't be used for progressive tense.
    We cannot say 'without the fact which is being known'. can we?

    There is another chance.
    If 'being' is not a present participle but a gerund, it can make sense.
    However, the question still remains whether 'without the known fact' and 'without the fact known' make sense or not.

    Thanks in advance.

  1. BobK's Avatar
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    • Join Date: Jul 2006
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    #2

    Re: without the fact being known... What does it mean?

    1-1. This is a story written by him.
    1-2. This is a story being written by him. Not ungrammatical, but artificial-sounding. It could be improved by the addition of 'that is' before the participle.l
    .
    .
    .
    2. Presumably four million seals could not compete with commercial fishermen for the same species without the fact being known.
    2 needs the 'being'; your alternatives are not acceptable - 'known fact' certainly doesn't work. What the sentence means is that the fishermen would have known [that is - they couldn't have failed to realize] that 4 million seals were competing with them.

    b

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