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  1. Junior Member
    Interested in Language
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      • Korean
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      • South Korea
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      • South Korea

    • Join Date: Mar 2012
    • Posts: 70
    #1

    without the fact being known... What does it mean?

    1-1. This is a story written by him.
    1-2. This is a story being written by him.

    I think past participles mean the passive and something that has been finished.
    I think 1-1 means a story that has been written by him.
    However, 1-2 can mean the passive and the progressive.
    So I think 1-2 means a story that is being written by him.

    2. Presumably four million seals could not compete with commercial fishermen for the same species without the fact being known.

    I happened to meet this sentence and I would like to ask about the phrase 'without the fact being known'.
    Does it have to be 'without the fact known', or 'without the known fact'?
    'know' is a stative, so it can't be used for progressive tense.
    We cannot say 'without the fact which is being known'. can we?

    There is another chance.
    If 'being' is not a present participle but a gerund, it can make sense.
    However, the question still remains whether 'without the known fact' and 'without the fact known' make sense or not.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. BobK's Avatar
    Harmless drudge
    English Teacher
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      • Native Language:
      • English
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      • UK
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      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2006
    • Posts: 16,037
    #2

    Re: without the fact being known... What does it mean?

    1-1. This is a story written by him.
    1-2. This is a story being written by him. Not ungrammatical, but artificial-sounding. It could be improved by the addition of 'that is' before the participle.l
    .
    .
    .
    2. Presumably four million seals could not compete with commercial fishermen for the same species without the fact being known.
    2 needs the 'being'; your alternatives are not acceptable - 'known fact' certainly doesn't work. What the sentence means is that the fishermen would have known [that is - they couldn't have failed to realize] that 4 million seals were competing with them.

    b

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