[Grammar] Difference between "claimed as" and "claimed to be"

[fatimah0786]

What is the difference between, "She claimed the child as her own" and "She claimed the child to be her own"?

 

[canadian45]

Although we very often see questions written like yours is, that is not the correct way to do it! The colon use is not correct. It's a total abomination!

The correct way to write your question is as follows. And it's much easier to write than the way you did.

What is the difference between "She claimed the child as her own." and "She claimed the child to be her own."?

Because I feel so strongly about the above message, I am not going to dilute it by answering your question now in this post. Someone else or I will respond to your question before long.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I completely disagree. The colon was appropriate. To the OP, both sentences are correct. But both should have been followed by a question mark.

 

[canadian45]

"She claimed the child as her own." The child was not and is not her child, but she is saying that the child should be hers now. Perhaps the child was a family member's child, but that person has died and the speaker wants the child to be her child now.

"She claimed the child to be her own."? I don't know what this sentence is supposed to mean. If it is supposed to mean 'She said the child is hers.', then that is what it should say.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Or in both cases, the child was her own child.

 

[Rover_KE]

The correct way to write your question is as follows. And it's much easier to write than the way you did.

What is the difference between "She claimed the child as her own." and "She claimed the child to be her own."?

Both full stops (periods) in your red sentence are incorrect, canadian.

Please state that you are not a teacher, in accordance with the forum rules.

 

[canadian45]

Both full stops (periods) in your red sentence are incorrect, canadian. Why do you say that? Are they not grammatically complete sentences within the entire 'sentence', extremely clumsy as it is? And a grammatically correct sentence is not correct without a period no matter where you find it.

All she (wrote)(said) was "I didn't see or hear anything."
not a certified teacher

.

 

[emsr2d2]

No, the full stops you used were not appropriate. If a sentence is quoted as part of another sentence or as part of a question, its own final punctuation mark is not used.

I have a house.
"I have a house."
Can I say "I have a house"?

 

[canadian45]

Or in both cases, the child was her own child.

But If the child was her own, it is much more natural to say 'She said the child was (hers)(her own).'

Not a teacher.

 

[emsr2d2]

But If the child was her own, it is much more natural to say 'She said the child was (hers)(her own).'

Not a teacher.

Why have you capitalised the word "if"? Why have you not left a space between the closing bracket of "hers" and the opening bracket of "her own"? Or rather, why did you not write "She said the child was hers/her own"?

 

[Barb_D]

Although we very often see questions written like yours is, that is not the correct way to do it! The colon use is not correct. It's a total abomination!

I really could not disagree with you more.

The way the OP wrote it was very clear, extremely easy to read, and left no doubt what the question is.

 

[Barb_D]

What is the difference between:

"She claimed the child as her own" -- It's not clear to me whether it is her child and she is acknowledging this, or it is not her child, but she is saying it is.

​

and:

"She claimed the child to be her own" -- I really don't find this very natural.
​

I do agree that "She said the child was hers" is a much simpler way of writing this.

 

[canadian45]

Why have you capitalised the word "if"? It's simply a careless mistake. Why have you not left a space between the closing bracket of "hers" and the opening bracket of "her own"? Why do think a space is needed? Or rather, why did you not write "She said the child was hers/her own"? Why is that definitely better than my choice? The only possible 'merit' I can see is that your way uses one hyphen instead of my several brackets. But is your way really better than mine and is it really the only correct way? Finally, why is a space needed between my brackets but not on either site of your hyphen? It all sounds pretty arbitrary.
A general post putting some of this into perspective will follow soon. Try to wait for that post if you can before you respond. That will lesson the chances of our talking past each other.

not a teacher

 

[canadian45]

some general comments

1) The only people obliged to follow style guides are the ones writing for that publication.
2) Having said the above, if this forum wants to teach a particular way of punctuation, for example, and say that that is the only correct way, it has the right to do that. Of course, others will have the right to criticize that particular punctuation and point out the merits of alternate punctuations, while realizing that they are unlikely to get the forum to change.
3) The initial post on this thread is truly really bad. Aside from the question of the internal periods, it is a 'sentence' spread over three lines with an "and:" hanging out in left field!
4) There is at least one example of omitted punctuation that I do agree with, and that is the omission of a period at the end of a sentence that ends with a quotation mark.
5) One of my pet peeves is the capitalization and punctuation of things that are not complete sentences. One good example of that is "Not a teacher." What kind of nonsense is that? And a more extreme example of that is the word "Yes." for example. People who do that may say the "Yes." is short for 'Yes, your sentence is correct.' It makes much more sense to me to just write 'yes', as apposed to 'no'. (The single quotations are only there for highlighting.)

not a teacher

 

[emsr2d2]

Well, Canadian45, you are of course entitled to your opinion about alternate punctuation but you must realise that there are some basic standards set on this forum and the established members, teachers, moderators and exceptional non-native speakers will point out diversions from and errors in punctuation and capitalisation in every thread.

We spend a lot of time explaining to users that a single word can and does constitute a sentence so we expect 'Thanks', 'Yes' and 'No' to be capitalised and, if they appear as a standalone sentence, then they should have a full stop at the end.

Also bear in mind that, as a native speaker, the learners on this forum will expect everything you write to be grammatically correct, spelt/spelled correctly, and capitalised and punctuated correctly. There are odd occasions when the native speakers disagree on how something should be written but, in the main, we all stick to the same 'rules'. This serves, above all, to avoid the learners getting very confused by seeing different systems and constructions employed by different native speakers.

Whenever a new native speaker joins the forum, especially one who immediately starts to answer learners' questions, we spend quite some time perusing posts by that person to check their English. The moderators correct minor typos in each other's posts on a regular basis because we can easily tell what is a typo and what isn't. With new members, like you, we have to read posts to see the constructions and standards used. For example, in your fifth point above, you wrote "as apposed to". At this point, we don't know if that is a simple typo or if you don't know how to spell "opposed" correctly.

So, with all due respect, none of it is "nonsense". This is what we do and we will continue to read, check and, if necessary, correct posts by every user on the forum.

 

[canadian45]

Thank you for your reply.

We spend a lot of time explaining to users that a single word can and does constitute a sentence so we expect 'Thanks', 'Yes' and 'No' to be capitalised and, if they appear as a standalone sentence, then they should have a full stop at the end. Again, I can only say that I have great difficulty accepting the word 'yes' as a sentence. A real sentence has a subject and a predicate. Related to that, I see no reason that single words or phrases such as 'not a teacher' can't have a place as a piece of information within a post.


Also bear in mind that, as a native speaker, the learners on this forum will expect everything you write to be grammatically correct, spelt/spelled correctly, and capitalised and punctuated correctly. There are odd occasions when the native speakers disagree on how something should be written That should not be at all surprising, and learners eventually have to realize that there can be more than one acceptable way to write something. but, in the main, we all stick to the same 'rules'. This serves, above all, to avoid the learners getting very confused by seeing different systems and constructions employed by different native speakers. But at some point advanced learners have to realize that language is different than science is.

Whenever a new native speaker joins the forum, especially one who immediately starts to answer learners' questions, we spend quite some time perusing posts by that person to check their English. The moderators correct minor typos in each other's posts on a regular basis because we can easily tell what is a typo and what isn't. With new members, like you, we have to read posts to see the constructions and standards used. For example, in your fifth point above, you wrote "as apposed to". At this point, we don't know if that is a simple typo or if you don't know how to spell "opposed" correctly. That was some sort of misstep; I do know how to spell 'oppose' and its related words. I am happy that you found only one mistake. You can imagine that my main concentration was on deciding what I should say and how I should say it. I'll take only one mistake as a success.

Finally, in my previous post I forgot to address the issue of the rules concerning the use of a colon within a sentence. I may have previously mentioned that there is a massive amount of incorrect colon use on the internet, including on ESL sites and by people who should know better.

There are two requirements for the correct use of a colon within a sentence.
a) What comes before the colon must be an independent clause, in other words 'a grammatically-correct and complete sentence'.
b) What comes after the colon gives additional information about what came before the colon.

'During their walk near the river, they saw three kinds of animals: two pheasants, a fox, and a rabbit.'

not a teacher

 

[MikeNewYork]

Give it a rest Canadian.

 

[canadian45]

Give it a rest Canadian.

I may do that, but in the meantime I am wondering what you are afraid of.

 

[canadian45]

I was really prepared to let this thread rest, but I was reading this post again and now I cannot but respond further.

We spend a lot of time explaining to users that a single word can and does (my underlining) constitute a sentence I think the "does" definitely goes too far and essentially erases any difference between a word and a sentence, even though that (presumably) was not your intention. To me, this shows the risk of 'overselling your case'.

More importantly, it's not very far fetched to imagine a certain level of ESL students saying to themselves, probably in their native languages, 'Holy ****, I didn't know there is no difference between a word and a sentence! Is that a silly concern? Who can be sure?
And finally, how do the collective 'you' explain the difference between a word and a sentence?

This post was written in the interest of English education. I hope it is taken in that way. If not, that would be unfortunate.

.

 

[emsr2d2]

This thread has gone way past being of any use to the OP (who I notice has now edited post #1 to remove the colon, making most of the first page of comments pointless) so I will close it. It is benefitting no-one to continue.