[Grammar] Even If + First/Second Conditional

[Checkmate]

What is followed after "Even if"? First or Second conditional?

"Even if I had one, I wouldn't give you".

"Even if I have one, I won't give you".

I find this is used interchangeably in some grammar learning websites.

 

[Matthew Wai]

'Had' is the past subjunctive used in the second conditional.

Not a teacher.

 

[Checkmate]

'Had' is the past subjunctive used in the second conditional.

Not a teacher.

So, which one should I use?

 

[Matthew Wai]

If I actually don't have one, I will use the second conditional.

Not a teacher.

 

[bhaisahab]

"Even if I had one, I wouldn't give it to you."

 

[Matthew Wai]

'I don't have one. Even if I had one, I wouldn't give it to you.'
'I don't know whether I will have one. Even if I have one, I won't give it to you.'

Not a teacher.

 

[Checkmate]

'I don't have one. Even if I had one, I wouldn't give it to you.'
'I don't know whether I will have one. Even if I have one, I won't give it to you.'

Not a teacher.

It's helping! :-D

 

[Checkmate]

"Even if I had one, I wouldn't give it to you."

Is it not natural or ungrammatical?

 

[bhaisahab]

"Even if I had one, I wouldn't give you".
This makes no sense.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Why does it make no sense? I can understand it.

Not a teacher.

 

[Raymott]

Why does it make no sense? I can understand it.

Then you're simply using a different definition of "making sense".

 

[Roman55]

I am not a teacher.

It makes no sense because there's something missing from it.

'Even if I had one, I wouldn't give you'. What wouldn't I give you; it or something else?

 

[Matthew Wai]

Then you're simply using a different definition of "making sense".

Make sense 'to have a meaning that you can easily understand'── quoted from http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/sense_1 Scroll down to 'make sense'.

'Even if I had one, I wouldn't give you'. What wouldn't I give you; it or something else?

Without context, the only possibility is that the speaker would not give the person being addressed the thing mentioned in the if-clause. Am I wrong?

Not a teacher.

 

[Roman55]

Without context, the only possibility is that the speaker would not give the person being addressed the thing mentioned in the if-clause. Am I wrong?

I am not a teacher.

If that is what is meant it needs to be said. 'Even if I had one, I wouldn't give it to you' is correct English.

'Even if I had one, I wouldn't give you' is not correct. It's the sort of thing that would be understood but that would mark the speaker as being non-native.

 

[Raymott]

Make sense 'to have a meaning that you can easily understand'── quoted from http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/sense_1

Yes, that's your definition. Bhaisahab and others are using a different one, which includes being grammatical. I'm not arguing about what it means, only that you are using it differently. "Me Tarzan; You Jane" either makes sense or doesn't depending on which definition you're using. I think there's a place for a spectrum of making sense. And while I agree more with your definition, Matthew, I think you understand it when someone uses the phrase to mean "It is not proper English".
For the record, the post made sense to me, because I assumed that a word or two had been left out. I typically don't call those types of sentence nonsensical.

 

[Aelito]

"Even if I had one, I wouldn't give you".

"Even if I have one, I won't give you".

NOT A TEACHER

The first sentence means that you don't have it at all and if you had it, you wouldn't give it anyway.
The second sentence means that you have one or you don't have one, it's not sure but even if you have one, you won't give it.

More precise : "Even if I worked harder, I wouldn't get enough money to pay you" -> it's sure, you cannot pay.
"Even if you have to leave, I won't let you get away with that" -> it's not sure if he's going to leave.

NOT A TEACHER